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#101906 - 07/30/03 02:42 PM Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Here's the situation: Customer (from another country) claims she did not book airline ticket through a well known internet travel site (to her home country) which was debited to her account. She claims that someone must have riffled through her purse and obtained all the information necessary. Provisional credit has been given and we are now investigating. According to the internet travel site (they are supposed to send us this in writing) at the time of the booking all of the following had to be input by the person booking the flight: home email address, freguent flyer number, home phone, business phone, home address. Additionally her "american" name, that is on her debit card, is different from her "real" name (she is not from western Europe). Her real name was also input at the time of booking and was correctly spelled. The travel site also states that she was sent a confirmation by email, to her home email address, but she claims she never received it. She said she will fill out the affidavit on Friday, her day off. Her debit card has not been stolen. I understand that it is the financial institution's burden to disprove the cardholder's claim. Her story seems highly unlikely considering that the flight was to her home country and all of the information that had to be input at the time of the booking, but is this sufficient "evidence" for us to reject the claim. We just don't believe it. You thoughts would be very appreciated.

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Operations Compliance
#101907 - 07/30/03 02:50 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
JacF Offline

Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
Has your customer tried to cancel the flight and get a refund? Perhaps you could invite her to call the travel agency and do just that- from your office. If she truly did not order the tickets, then she truly does not need them.

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#101908 - 07/30/03 02:53 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Too late for that. The flight has already left. No one used the ticket. We think she just changed her mind.

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#101909 - 07/30/03 02:53 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
I think a reasonable person with an understanding of the scenario would agree that it's likely the woman authorized or made the purchase.

Some added information would be most helpful -- Did the ticket get used? If so, there's another argument she bought it, since there's an ID requirement for boarding.

I assume that the identifying information received by the travel site is your customer's, right down to the e-mail address, mailing address, etc.
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John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

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#101910 - 07/30/03 02:55 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Yes, everything checks out: email addrss, mailing address, everything.

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#101911 - 07/30/03 02:56 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
OK, so the use of the flight is not a clue here. I'd still deny the claim based on the facts as you've presented them. She should be able to work with the travel site or the airline to receive a refund or travel voucher for the unused ticket, even if she doesn't have it in hand.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

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#101912 - 07/30/03 05:40 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
Andy_Z Offline
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Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,748
On the Net
I agree with the conclusion. Also supporting your position against fraud is that the ticket was not used. A real thief (assuming it was not a prank) would have used the goods or services to profit in one way or another from their dirty deed.

There is too much evidence in your favor to pay the claim.
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AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

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#101913 - 07/30/03 05:55 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
Anonymous
Unregistered

I would further agree with your position. The only thing the thief used her debit card for was a plane ticket to her home country? There are no other fraud claims? You can buy all kinds of things on the internet. Can't the on-line company document from which computer the order was placed? Isn't that what cookies can do? I think they would be able to help you figure out the source of the order. If it came from her home, that would be further proof of her liability. I think she would have a tough time proving it wasn't her if you do not give her the money back and she tries to sue.

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#101914 - 07/30/03 07:38 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
Andy_Z Offline
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Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,748
On the Net
I think the most they could do was tell what IP address the order came from unless the bank went into her home and did a forensics review on her PC. If dial-up is used this changes with each connection so it likely isn't static anyway. That shouldn't be necessary as the facts are against her.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

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#101915 - 07/31/03 06:37 PM Re: Reg E claim/bank's burden of proof?
Anonymous
Unregistered

We had a situation where someone stole a few of our customer's card numbers and used them to gamble with. We ran some queries and found a pattern and eventually found the person that stole the card numbers. We involved the police. The police were able to obtain from the gambling place and internet provider the phone number that dialed into the internet. We found this number to be a second pnone number that was used just for the crook's internet. I don't think you want to go through all of this trouble for one transaction but I just want you to know it can be done. The police did have to get a court order in order to get the Internet company to give up the phone number. My theory is that if I feel someone is guilty, I will go the extra steps to catch them. This will stop them from doing the same thing to another bank. The person who stole these numbers is now in jail and has to pay restitution.

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