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#1276084 - 10/28/09 04:24 PM Converted Item Return (ACH / Check Presentment (s)
kiemo Offline
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kiemo
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 267
MidUS
Re-clarification please John Burnett on your entry posted 3/09/09 concerning presentment of items. We have a situation in operations department over ACH POP debits that have come through three times, been returned as NSF from this institution three times, and today same item has been presented (fourth time) out of the ACH system as a 'Pre-Authorized Debit'. According to a UMACHA representative, this is actually a rules violation to ever present an item more than three total times (including as ACH or paper). Operations has returned the paper with punched out account number and 'please do not re-deposit'...the entry of 03/09/09 is referring only to BOC and ARC entries, but UMACHA staff person indicated that these are not allowed more than three total either. This is what I had always understood as correct also, but operations staff presented me your answer...help....

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eBanking / Technology
#1276655 - 10/29/09 02:59 AM Re: Converted Item Return (ACH / Check Presentment (s) kiemo
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
NACHA rules don't extend beyond ACH items. The attempt to use a paper item -- it sounds like it would qualify as a "remotely created check" as that term is defined in Regulation CC -- would be perfectly legal and authorized if the drawer of the original check had agreed to it in the event that the check -- in paper or ACH format -- can't be collected.

That said, the only person to whom your bank could be accountable for bouncing that paper item is your depositor, who has already been clobbered with three overdraft fees by my count, and would probably not be at all bothered by your refusal to pay it.

Just understand, of course, that your customer still owes the money to the payee.
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John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
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#1276716 - 10/29/09 01:24 PM Re: Converted Item Return (ACH / Check Presentment (s) John Burnett
kiemo Offline
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kiemo
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 267
MidUS
Thanks much John.

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