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#1428129 - 08/12/10 11:48 AM Who do I file the SAR on?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I need to file a SAR for structuring. A small business gave an individual a check for $9500.00 on the July 12th, $9500.00 on the 13th, then the next week $9500.00 on the 20th and $9500.00 on the 21st. The non-customer cashed the checks on the day that is written on the checks.

Would I file a SAR on the customer that gave the guy the checks or the non-customer that cashed the checks? Or both?

I called FinCEN and they said that they couldn't advise me.

Can you all give me some advise.

Thanks in advance!!

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#1428135 - 08/12/10 11:52 AM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Anonymous]
Skittles Offline
10K Club

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 12324
Loc: KY
Is there any way to ask your customer if they opted to pay this way or if the recipient requested it this way?
_________________________
'Remember that today while you are safe, comfortable and warm somewhere a Kardashian/Jenner is starving for attention.' TR

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#1428146 - 08/12/10 12:03 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Skittles]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not really.

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#1428153 - 08/12/10 12:06 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Anonymous]
Skittles Offline
10K Club

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 12324
Loc: KY
The officer of record on the account doesn't feel comfortable contacting the customer and asking about the transactions <without mentioning the SAR of course>?
_________________________
'Remember that today while you are safe, comfortable and warm somewhere a Kardashian/Jenner is starving for attention.' TR

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#1428169 - 08/12/10 12:17 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Skittles]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Original Anon.
I had asked the Officer to contact the customer about some international debit card transactions, (his card limit was raised to 10k!!!!) and he wouldn't call him. I have already been monitoring the account because of the international debit card activity. The branch supervisor thinks the guy is shady but no proof of anything.

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#1428177 - 08/12/10 12:26 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Anonymous]
Skittles Offline
10K Club

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 12324
Loc: KY
Then honestly I would file on both since you can't determine 'whose' idea this was, but that's just my opinion. And I think you have a huge issue with the officer that needs to be addressed.
_________________________
'Remember that today while you are safe, comfortable and warm somewhere a Kardashian/Jenner is starving for attention.' TR

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#1428180 - 08/12/10 12:29 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Anonymous]
Georgia Plum
Unregistered


Let's see, international debit card activity and structuring. How is he funding the debit card activity? Are his deposits into his account cash or wires or something else? I would probably file with two suspects, the maker and the payee. Your customer assisted in structuring these checks regardless of whether the payee asked him to or not.

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#1428185 - 08/12/10 12:33 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: ]
Doug Hendrickson Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 3610
I agree that the filing should be on both as suspects.
_________________________
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.--Confucius

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#1428206 - 08/12/10 12:50 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Doug Hendrickson]
Aggs Offline
Diamond Poster

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 1331
Loc: Hoosier Country
Taking the international debit card activity out of the equation, I would say you would only need to file on the non-customer who cashed the checks. I say that because writing someone several checks for $9,500 is NOT structuring for BSA purposes as there is no cash involved. It was the payee's choice to cash those checks versus depositing them into his account.

Now, taking your already existing concerns about the business account, I might view it differently. But then, if you filed it on the business, you might want to include the whole big picture in the filing (i.e. file it on the business for suspicious debit card activity PLUS the large checks, and include the non-customer in the narrative as cashing those items). I think reporting the business as a suspect solely based on writing 4 checks to someone (who chose to cash them) is stretching it a bit.

I also share the previous poster's concerns about the account officer not being willing to contact the customer and ask more questions. That would irritate me to no end. eek
_________________________
CRCM + CAMS = certified compliance nerd

Opinions expressed in these threads are my own and not my employer's.

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#1428222 - 08/12/10 01:13 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Aggs]
FNBGal Offline
100 Club

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 140
Loc: CA
Can't the officer just call the customer to make sure that the checks are okay and were actually issued by the customer. At that point, the customer may just offer an explanation. The officer could also ask if there will be more checks so they don't have to call again for his approval. And then you could probably throw in a question about the reason for multiple checks.

Depending on what we know, we've filed the SARs both ways. Most of our customers have told us that the payee requested the checks to be issued that way or they're paying as work is completed.

In one situation, the non-customer cashing the checks was kind enough to tell us that our customer was issuing the checks to him that way so that the transactions would not be reported - they were brothers. So we filed the SAR on both.

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#1428227 - 08/12/10 01:18 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: FNBGal]
Aggs Offline
Diamond Poster

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 1331
Loc: Hoosier Country
Originally Posted By: Sallyg
Can't the officer just call the customer to make sure that the checks are okay and were actually issued by the customer. At that point, the customer may just offer an explanation.

[...]

Most of our customers have told us that the payee requested the checks to be issued that way or they're paying as work is completed.


I completely agree.

And if the officer doesn't want to call, you call. smile I've made plenty of phonecalls myself. I introduce myself, I say I'm calling to verify several transactions, etc. I usually spin it that I'm doing this as a precaution because I care about them and their money and I want to make sure these transactions are valid.

Every single time I will get some kind of an explanation. It either makes sense and explains the transactions -or- it is obviously a lie and they're trying to cover something up. I usually walk away from the conversation knowing what to do in terms of filing a SAR.
_________________________
CRCM + CAMS = certified compliance nerd

Opinions expressed in these threads are my own and not my employer's.

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#1428243 - 08/12/10 01:38 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Aggs]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Orginial Anon.

The deposits are large wires from legitimate businesses. It is an oil and gas company so the dollar amounts coming in and out are large.

There were two more checks from the 4th and 5th. I just talked to the Teller that cashed the checks and she said that she questioned the customer and he got mad. He called the guy that gave him the checks and then the business owner called and yelled at the supervisor. The supervisor is on vacation so I don't really know the details of that conversation.

I agree about the account officer but I cannot do anything about that, he is Ex VP.....

My boss had told me that we couldn't file on both parties, but I had read about a case like this somewhere, but I don't remember the details.

One more question. The account is an LLC and there are two people on the account. One guy is signing all the checks. Would the SAR be on the business, or the guy writing the checks.

Thanks for all of your input.

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#1428247 - 08/12/10 01:44 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Anonymous]
Aggs Offline
Diamond Poster

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 1331
Loc: Hoosier Country
Ok, now there is more to the story and so I am more inclined to say you file on the business and on the payee. You're talking 6 checks now (right?) in addition to the angry behavior by both the payee and the maker.

I believe the SAR should be filed on the LLC, not on the member who issued the checks. The LLC is its own legal entity and the checks were issued by the LLC. However, I would indicate in the narrative that all checks were issued and signed by a specific member (and name him in the narrative in addition to noting the suspicious, angry response to being questioned on the checks!)

I would file on the business and on the payee.
_________________________
CRCM + CAMS = certified compliance nerd

Opinions expressed in these threads are my own and not my employer's.

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#1428253 - 08/12/10 01:47 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: Anonymous]
Georgia Plum
Unregistered


The business. And I'm sorry, but they are both in this together as far as structuring, otherwise why would they both get mad at being questioned?

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#1428273 - 08/12/10 02:09 PM Re: Who do I file the SAR on? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for your all of your help!

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