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January 6, 2015
Business Accounts Documentation and Procedures with Beneficial Ownership
Deborah Crawford

January 6, 2015
FFIEC Cybersecurity Initiatives and Observations from the 2014 Assessments
Susan Orr

January 15, 2015
The ABC's of IRAs - The Basic Ingredients
Patrice Konarik

January 20, 2015
B & Z Appraisal Rules - Getting Them Right
Jack Holzknecht

January 21, 2015
HMDA Soup to Nuts
David Dickinson

January 22, 2015
Navigating the Treacherous Waters of IRA Rollovers, Transfers and Beneficiary Payouts
Patrice Konarik

January 28, 2015
Mortgage Life Cycle
Part I
David Dickinson and Jerod Moyer



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#1487775 - 12/30/10 06:06 PM CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box
JeffSal Offline
New Poster

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 7
CIP requires a Physical Address. I believe CTRs also require a physical address. What if the customer changes or wants to change their physical address to a PO Box? Does the account have to be closed/frozen until the physical address is provided?

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BSA/AML/CIP/OFAC
#1487789 - 12/30/10 08:25 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: JeffSal]
patsfan Offline
Gold Star

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 251
Not to be a stickler, but they can't change their physical address to a PO box. Could they simply be asking to receive bank correspondence at a different location? If so, does your core processor allow for storing a separate mailing address? That should be the easiest solution.

You should not have to freeze or close the account if the customer has already provided a physical address, but make sure you follow your institution's policy & procedures for resolving CIP discrepancies, if this qualifies as one.
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CFE, CAMS

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#1487790 - 12/30/10 08:38 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: patsfan]
Kathleen B Online

10K Club

Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 17857
Don't forget that the CIP address that is retained for BSA purposes was obtained at the time the customer first opened an account. That should be stored permanently (until 5 years after all accounts are closed) somewhere. It never changes.

That being said banks do want a current physical address, as well as any mailing address like a PO Box, but don't confuse that with CIP.

If your customer really doesn't want the bank to have a physical address, that is cause for wondering why. As stated above, most systems can carry 2 addresses, the current physical as well as a mailing address. That is not a problem if that is all the customer wants.
_________________________
Kathleen Blanchard CRCM "Kaybee"
Lending/CRA/HMDA/Mapping/Consulting
www.kaybeescomplianceinsights.com

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#1487825 - 12/31/10 08:46 AM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: JeffSal]
Ken_Pegasus Offline
10K Club

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 17576
Loc: Another trip around the sun
If your customer gave you a physical address as required by law he cannot take it back. If he wants to give you a new physical address or change his mailing address to a P.O. Box, that's fine. You are not going to freeze anything in connection with a request for a change of address.

Your record retention obligation (as described above) only applies to the physical address that he gave you prior to your opening of the account.
_________________________
"Oh God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small." Breton fisherman's prayer in JFK's office.

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#1488208 - 12/31/10 04:08 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: Ken_Pegasus]
JeffSal Offline
New Poster

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 7
Thanks, everyone. To clarify, the scenario is that we obtained a physical address upon opening. It's stored forever. So that's covered. The issue is what if the customer wants to have his address changed to a PO Box but will not answer or provide an updated physical address. If that's the case, the assumption is the physical address we obtained upon opening is no longer valid. Therefore, we would have a customer but not have his physical address. Logically, if the gov't won't allow an account to be opened for a customer who won't provide a real physical address, it doesn't really make sense to allow business to continue with a customer who subsequently changes his address but won't provide it. However, the reg/law doesn't address this and from the replies above the consensus is business can continue with the customer and there is no violation of the law/reg. A SAR would be filed for someone who did this. Thanks for your input everyone!

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#1488220 - 12/31/10 04:30 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: JeffSal]
Ken_Pegasus Offline
10K Club

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 17576
Loc: Another trip around the sun
Quote:
The issue is what if the customer wants to have his address changed to a PO Box but will not answer or provide an updated physical address.


If your CIP or just your intuition says you should give him the boot you can certainly do so.

If a customer refuses to provide a physical address at account inception when the law explicitly requires a physical address you would not open the account. Arguably, you could consider filing a SAR. (I'd be glad to take either side of a debate about whether a SAR is required in this instance. The first issue is the dollar threshold.)

However, you note you are now only assuming the customer's physical address has changed because he refused to answer the question. Regardless, even if your bank knew his residence had burned to the ground, there is no requirement that a customer must update a physical address for accounts that are already on your books.

There is no basis for filing a SAR based on his refusal to answer a question the law does not require you to ask.
_________________________
"Oh God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small." Breton fisherman's prayer in JFK's office.

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#1488282 - 01/03/11 08:50 AM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: Ken_Pegasus]
John Burnett Offline
10K Club

Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 30979
Loc: Cape Cod
There are lots of reasons for someone not to want his/her physical address readily known, even by his or her banker. Some of those reasons are perfectly understandable; others may be viewed as somewhat paranoid. I don't see any direct connection between such a desire for secrecy and suspect behavior. There would have to be other factors before I'd be concerned.
_________________________
John S Burnett
BankersOnline.com

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#1495947 - 01/14/11 04:48 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: John Burnett]
ComplianceJoe Offline
New Poster

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 10
A request for a change of address has to be verified (Read the FACTA Rules) and you need to maintain a residential address. Also be careful with some mail box locations services (like mail boxes etc.) that provide a physical address but is actually a box somewhere. That type of behavior is normally a Red Flag for identity theft. You can always verify your current address witha credit report or chexsystems and if you have access to Experian Services, do a social serach that gives you a list of addresses, including the most current one used
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"...I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.."

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#1496053 - 01/15/11 11:36 AM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: ComplianceJoe]
Ken_Pegasus Offline
10K Club

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 17576
Loc: Another trip around the sun
I won't claim that I have, but I think John has already read the FACTA rules.

Here, the bank asked for a new address because it assumed the old one was no longer valid. Their problem is they did not get a new address. FACTA is not an issue.
_________________________
"Oh God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small." Breton fisherman's prayer in JFK's office.

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#1496061 - 01/15/11 04:42 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: Ken_Pegasus]
rlcarey Offline
10K Club

Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 51223
Loc: Galveston, TX
Ken, Compliance Joe is somewhat correct, but only under some pretty limited circumstances. I also cannot find anything to support that they have to "maintain a residential address":

222.91(c) Address validation requirements. A card issuer must establish and implement reasonable policies and procedures to assess the validity of a change of address if it receives notification of a change of address for a consumer’s debit or credit card account and, within a short period of time afterwards (during at least the first 30 days after it receives such notification), the card issuer receives a request for an additional or replacement card for the same account. Under these circumstances, the card issuer may not issue an additional or replacement card, until,...........
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The opinions expressed are my own, take them or leave them.

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#1496062 - 01/15/11 04:54 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: rlcarey]
Ken_Pegasus Offline
10K Club

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 17576
Loc: Another trip around the sun
What appears to be missing is a request for a change of address...this consumer refused to make one.
_________________________
"Oh God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small." Breton fisherman's prayer in JFK's office.

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#1496064 - 01/15/11 05:00 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: Ken_Pegasus]
rlcarey Offline
10K Club

Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 51223
Loc: Galveston, TX
Well, if we go back to the original post, they did request a change of address for the mailing of their statements to the PO Box and if there was then a request for a new acess device within 30 days, 222.91(c) would come into play. Hovis corectly point out that this was not a request to change thier physical address in the first repsonse.

You are correct that this has nothing to do with the physical address of the customer and I also know of no regulatory requirement that it ever be updated after the original CIP process is complete.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are my own, take them or leave them.

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#1496066 - 01/15/11 06:05 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: rlcarey]
Ken_Pegasus Offline
10K Club

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 17576
Loc: Another trip around the sun
Sorry, but I'm looking at the issue as framed by the person who started the thread:

Quote:
The issue is what if the customer wants to have his address changed to a PO Box but will not answer or provide an updated physical address.


If there's a FACTA dance to be done about the request to change the address, I'll be glad to hum along, but it's simply not relevant to the fact the customer will not provide a different physical address.
_________________________
"Oh God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small." Breton fisherman's prayer in JFK's office.

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#1496081 - 01/16/11 01:12 PM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: Ken_Pegasus]
Kathleen B Online

10K Club

Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 17857
I know that the banks I deal with (2 large ones and one small local one) are more than happy to use a new PO Box, but want a current physical address as well.
_________________________
Kathleen Blanchard CRCM "Kaybee"
Lending/CRA/HMDA/Mapping/Consulting
www.kaybeescomplianceinsights.com

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#1496245 - 01/18/11 09:58 AM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: Kathleen B]
John Burnett Offline
10K Club

Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 30979
Loc: Cape Cod
As long as no one is claiming that CIP regulations require an updated physical address, because they don't.

I can see a bank's desire to always have a current physical address on file. There's the obvious potential for a CTR, and there's the potential to be able to track the customer down for one thing or another later. But there's no requirement in the regulations.

I do agree that banks need to watch out for known private mailbox addresses, particularly at CIP time (they would not qualify unless the indidivual actually worked at that address).

As for implicating the Red Flags guidelines, Randy has explained the requirement in §222.91.
_________________________
John S Burnett
BankersOnline.com

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#1496258 - 01/18/11 10:16 AM Re: CIP - Physical Address changed to PO Box [Re: John Burnett]
Kathleen B Online

10K Club

Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 17857
I find that many banks confuse CIP with updating records.

Two different things.

I am referencing need to update records - not for CIP. Some folks just can't differentiate; I suspect not really understanding CIP is the culprit. My banks do differentiate.

I can't tell them they don't need to know where to find me! I would expect them to want a current address.
_________________________
Kathleen Blanchard CRCM "Kaybee"
Lending/CRA/HMDA/Mapping/Consulting
www.kaybeescomplianceinsights.com

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Moderator:  Andy Z, Ken_Pegasus