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#1665681 - 02/15/12 01:23 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
straw Offline
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Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 9109
By these I meant BC, abortion drugs, etc. Why do you think the administration is requring these drugs (BC, morning after pills) to be free?

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#1665721 - 02/15/12 02:17 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
HappyGilmore Offline
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Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 17476
Loc: Moron, Mongolia
aren't there other measures that can be taken to ensure one doesn't become pregnant, that are more cost effective than birth control pills? are all contraceptives to be free? or just pills? what about the implants? or over the counter options?
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#1665725 - 02/15/12 02:33 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Sound Tactic Offline
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This is another example of the mindset of people who are not responsible for their own actions. Except this takes it to another level. I could take measures to not get pregnant. Instead I will use birth control (nothing wrong with that). But I need my birth control to be mandated by the government.

So who does this help?
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#1665753 - 02/15/12 02:44 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
HappyGilmore Offline
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lazy people? isn't that who really benefit the most from any handouts?
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#1665767 - 02/15/12 03:06 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: straw]
Princess Romeo Offline

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Originally Posted By: straw
By these I meant BC, abortion drugs, etc. Why do you think the administration is requring these drugs (BC, morning after pills) to be free?


I don't know why the Administration is requiring them to be free. I believe that a rape victim should have free access to a rape investigation kit and morning after pill.

As for everything else, I say that the SAME STANDARDS for access for ED meds should be used for BC meds.

Which causes me to wonder - do these religious organizations have a problem subsidizing Viagra? And if not, why not?
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Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
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#1665778 - 02/15/12 03:01 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
straw Offline
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Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 9109
Does taking ED medication have the same moral implication regarding the sanctity of life?

But once you take the morals out of it, I see why you would equate the two, which makes the administration's decision all the more odd.

Unless viewed as a political decision to rally women, such as yourself, to vote for the anointed one because religious groups dare oppose providing these things for free or at all.

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#1665779 - 02/15/12 03:01 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Pale Rider Offline
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I don't think so PR. Birth control inhibits procreation, Viagra allows for a lot more procreatin' goin' on out there....
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#1665785 - 02/15/12 03:19 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
DEL Offline
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Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 646
So should they only provide viagra to men whose partners don't use contraceptives? Because otherwise it wouldn't by about procreation....

Besides, wouldn't Catholic doctrine say that ED is God's will? Do they endorse fertility treatments?

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#1665801 - 02/15/12 03:22 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
straw Offline
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Posts: 9109
I hate to speak for Catholics (not being one) but there is nothing anti-medicine or anti-science in Catholicism's moral issues regarding birth control. Catholicism doesn't say that we all must simply submit to god's will and therefore all medicine is immoral.

So whether it be ED drugs, insulin, cholestorol medication, chemotherapy drugs, all fine. Again, removing the moral element and accepting the left premise that pregancy and abortion are simple medical conditions, why treat these drugs and procedures differently than other medical conditions?

As I said, this is really a shameful political act to try to stir up voter turnout. But the reality is whether Obama caves now or not, this power is out there and it is only a matter of time before it is used in an even more pervasive way.

Liberals routinely carp about conservatives trying to tell others how to live i.e. gay marriage, abortion. Why is it ok for liberals i.e. Obama to tell Christians that they must disavow their morality and live according to liberal dogma?

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#1665951 - 02/15/12 06:33 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: straw]
Princess Romeo Offline

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Originally Posted By: straw
Does taking ED medication have the same moral implication regarding the sanctity of life?



And there it is. The consequences of having sex fall upon the woman. So how about we all just stop having sex unless we INTEND to create a baby? Somehow, I can't see many men getting on board with that.

And yes, if we are going to be "moral" about this, then a man should not be receiving ED meds unless he and his wife are trying to conceive.

Otherwise, he is just "spilling his seed" - the overused and inaccurate lesson drawn from Onan.
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

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#1665965 - 02/15/12 07:46 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Princess Romeo Offline

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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
I don't think so PR. Birth control inhibits procreation, Viagra allows for a lot more procreatin' goin' on out there....


Oh you rapscallion you!


**giggles**
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

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#1665967 - 02/15/12 08:11 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Truffle Royale Offline

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Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 14321
just got a chance to read the rest of this thread and wanted to add a point of clarification.
The morning after pill MIGHT be looked at as birth control. But the reason it is used AFTER has much to do with the fact that it can irritate the lining of the uterus (endometrium) so as to inhibit implantation of a fertilized egg.
A fertilized egg IS a baby making the morning after pill an abortion in the eyes of various religions.
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#1665968 - 02/15/12 08:14 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Princess Romeo]
Blade Scrapper Offline
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5911
Loc: Outside A Garage
Originally Posted By: Princess Romeo
Originally Posted By: straw
Does taking ED medication have the same moral implication regarding the sanctity of life?



And there it is. The consequences of having sex fall upon the woman. So how about we all just stop having sex unless we INTEND to create a baby? Somehow, I can't see many men getting on board with that.

And yes, if we are going to be "moral" about this, then a man should not be receiving ED meds unless he and his wife are trying to conceive.

Otherwise, he is just "spilling his seed" - the overused and inaccurate lesson drawn from Onan.
Nobody, I mean nobody, is talking about banning BC. Just wheteher or not it is fair to force other people to pay for it.
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#1665983 - 02/15/12 09:40 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Sound Tactic Offline
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Since when is the Church's stance that it is the woman's fault. The Church's stance is don't dictate things to me that violate my religious freedom.
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#1666032 - 02/16/12 08:17 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
waldensouth Offline
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Perhaps, in the name of fairness, Vasectomies could be ordered to be free as well - thereby removing the concern that only women bear the consequences of sex.

We all bear the consequences of sex, we pay for the children that are born and we pay for the abortions via our tax dollars - either way we pay.

Putting morals back into the equation and supporting organizations that try to do just that would be easier on the pocket all the way around.
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#1666063 - 02/16/12 08:57 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Princess Romeo]
HappyGilmore Offline
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Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 17476
Loc: Moron, Mongolia
Originally Posted By: Princess Romeo
Originally Posted By: straw
Does taking ED medication have the same moral implication regarding the sanctity of life?



And there it is. The consequences of having sex fall upon the woman. So how about we all just stop having sex unless we INTEND to create a baby? Somehow, I can't see many men getting on board with that.

And yes, if we are going to be "moral" about this, then a man should not be receiving ED meds unless he and his wife are trying to conceive.

Otherwise, he is just "spilling his seed" - the overused and inaccurate lesson drawn from Onan.


I don't think anyone says it falls soleoy on the woamn. There are methods of contraception that men can use, and the Catholic Church also has an approved contraception method.
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#1666125 - 02/16/12 09:51 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Princess Romeo]
straw Offline
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Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 9109
Originally Posted By: Princess Romeo
Originally Posted By: straw
Does taking ED medication have the same moral implication regarding the sanctity of life?



And there it is. The consequences of having sex fall upon the woman. So how about we all just stop having sex unless we INTEND to create a baby? Somehow, I can't see many men getting on board with that.

And yes, if we are going to be "moral" about this, then a man should not be receiving ED meds unless he and his wife are trying to conceive.

Otherwise, he is just "spilling his seed" - the overused and inaccurate lesson drawn from Onan.


No it is just that medication allowing someone to have sex doesn't interfere with the way religions see interference with life.

This is not about medication or even sex. This is about the government telling religions that they cannot believe what they believe.

It would be the same thing if the government turns around and outlaws kosher/hillal food because of slaughter practices. Should the government be allowed to tell a religion what they can and cannot believe/practice?

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#1666132 - 02/16/12 09:53 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: waldensouth]
straw Offline
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Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 9109
Originally Posted By: waldensouth
Perhaps, in the name of fairness, Vasectomies could be ordered to be free as well - thereby removing the concern that only women bear the consequences of sex.

We all bear the consequences of sex, we pay for the children that are born and we pay for the abortions via our tax dollars - either way we pay.

Putting morals back into the equation and supporting organizations that try to do just that would be easier on the pocket all the way around.


By the same logic, we all pay, one way or another, for all diseases and treatments. So why shouldn't all medication that prevents more expensive complications be free.

BTW, when pregnancy and child rearing finally do become simple economic burdens on society, we will have finally crossed over to Soylent Green.

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#1666133 - 02/16/12 09:54 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Pale Rider Offline
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Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 33957
Loc: under the Lone Star
turns the Constitution on its head, no? And what of the Bill of Rights?
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#1666139 - 02/16/12 10:02 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
straw Offline
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Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 9109
Offended by President Obama's decision to force health insurers to pay for contraception and surgical sterilization? It gets worse: In the future, thanks to ObamaCare, the government will issue such health edicts on a routine basis—and largely insulated from public view. This goes beyond contraception to cancer screenings, the use of common drugs like aspirin, and much more.

Under ObamaCare, a single committee—the United States Preventative Services Task Force—is empowered to evaluate preventive health services and decide which will be covered by health-insurance plans.

The task force already rates services with letter grades of "A" through "D" (or "I," if it has "insufficient evidence" to make a rating). But under ObamaCare, services rated "A" or "B"—such as colon cancer screening for adults aged 50-75—must be covered by health plans in full, without any co-pays. Many services that get "Cs" and "Ds"—such as screening for ovarian or testicular cancer—could get nixed from coverage entirely

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...Opinion_LEADTop

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#1666148 - 02/16/12 10:08 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Pale Rider Offline
10K Club

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 33957
Loc: under the Lone Star
I can't wait until its my turn to present myself before the Death Panel, and they decide I am no longer a contributing member of society.
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This is the government the founders warned us about!

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#1666172 - 02/16/12 10:20 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
HappyGilmore Offline
10K Club

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 17476
Loc: Moron, Mongolia
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
I can't wait until its my turn to present myself before the Death Panel, and they decide I am no longer a contributing member of society.



I think others have already decided you don't contribute, that that is likely a topic for another thread grin


Disclaimer - note the BOL approved smiley indicating this post is meant in humor and not ill will, indicative of humor, and not meant to be an approved or unapproved bashing of any poster or MOD
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The only people you should be getting even with are those that have helped you in some way.

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#1666230 - 02/16/12 11:19 AM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Blade Scrapper Offline
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5911
Loc: Outside A Garage
::pushes pale onto ice floe:: smile *





*note smiley
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#1666278 - 02/16/12 12:13 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
Pale Rider Offline
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Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 33957
Loc: under the Lone Star
Good thing I know you people and that your intentions are good, otherwise I would be taking names after kicking your butts to the curb!
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#1666315 - 02/16/12 12:25 PM Re: Obamacare and religious organizations [Re: Pale Rider]
edAudit Online
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Registered: 07/18/08
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How would you do that as you would be on the ice floe laugh

Notice smiley
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