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#1673170 - 03/05/12 01:03 PM Saints Bounties
Stupendous Man Offline
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/fo...1685/index.html

I'd imagine the penalties would be more severe than what the Patriots got for spying.


Chris Mortensen (or one of those guys) pointed out, everyone involved is absolutely open to legal action here by injured players. This extends outside the bounds of playing a game, especially on illegal hits, and you can't write it off as an accident or anything else. One man was paid to injure another, and did it.

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#1673174 - 03/05/12 01:06 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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I'd imagine the penalties would be more severe than what the Patriots got for spying.


Why?
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#1673184 - 03/05/12 01:17 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Because whether they actually care or not, the entire message of the league for the last three-plus years has been about player safety above all else. We just came off of a lockout where player safety was core to the players' complaints, and just came off of a massive controversy about concussions.

For PR reasons alone, the NFL would have to come down hard.

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#1673188 - 03/05/12 01:23 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Rumor has it that the Titans, Bills, and Redskins all had similar 'programs'.
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#1673190 - 03/05/12 01:24 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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There is a big difference Ed...team sanctioned bounties to intentionally hurt players is just a tad more serious than the spygate saga...
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#1673191 - 03/05/12 01:25 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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core to the players' complaints,

Not to the NFL

Just wondering how many other teams did the same as there was no "rule" against it. Just common sense no to engage in it.

I would hope that they would come down hard but I would not count on it.

The NFL has always done what is best for the NFL.
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#1673192 - 03/05/12 01:26 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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It is bad PR for the league...since the Saints aren't as hated as the Pats, maybe the penalties won't be as harsh.
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#1673193 - 03/05/12 01:26 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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PS the Pats were told not to engage in that behavior and did it anyway.
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#1673194 - 03/05/12 01:28 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Thanks for the refresher Ed..my point is this is more serious. Do you need a rule against everything?
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#1673197 - 03/05/12 01:30 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Sox in '13]
EdAudit Online
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Originally Posted By: Sox hopeful 2012
It is bad PR for the league...since the Saints aren't as hated as the Pats, maybe the penalties won't be as harsh.


I for one did not think that the penalties were to harsh. I would expect (but will not be shocked if it does not happen) multiple suspensions for a long term.

The NFL would just like it to go away as easy as it can.

I would think that the owners (of all team involved including mani's named teams) would have knowlege of it and that will not sit well if the penalties are towards them.
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#1673200 - 03/05/12 01:34 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: EdAudit]
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#1673201 - 03/05/12 01:34 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: EdAudit]
Stupendous Man Offline
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Originally Posted By: EdAudit
...as there was no "rule" against it. Just common sense no to engage in it.


From the article I linked:

All payouts for specific performances in a game, including interceptions or causing fumbles, are against NFL rules. The NFL also warns teams against such practices before each season.

Saints players contributed cash to the pool, at times large amounts, and in some cases the money pledged was directed against a specific person, the NFL said.

"The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for `performance,' but also for injuring opposing players,'' Goodell said in a statement. "The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity.''


(End quote, back to me talking now)

In addition if this report

http://mike-freeman.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6264363/35066335

is true and an outsider funded the bounties, then there are salary cap violations also at play.

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#1673203 - 03/05/12 01:36 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Sox in '13]
Bob The Banker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sox hopeful 2012
Thanks for the refresher Ed..my point is this is more serious. Do you need a rule against everything?

How in the world is this more serious? Yes, they put bounties on players, but the same in-game rules applied to those players as anyone else... any illegal hits are to be flagged with fines and suspsension if needed... Defenders are paid to hit guys already -- its called their paycheck!

What the Patriots did violated the integrity of the game FAR more than this. The Patriots had video cameras on opposing teams to illegal decipher coaching signals and tape walk-throughs. Wasn't it funny how it always seemed like the Patriots knew what the other team was doing? Isn't it also funny their defense can't make stops since they were busted?

Regardless if these players were motivated to hit someone harder, they are still bound by the in-game rules. Heck, guys target and try to injure players without bounties! It is not illegal to target someone and try to hurt them -- certain hits and actions are illegal, but the shear effort to hurt someone is not. It is also not illegal to target players -- ala Giants targeting Kyle Williams.

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#1673208 - 03/05/12 01:40 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Originally Posted By: TexMex
Because whether they actually care or not, the entire message of the league for the last three-plus years has been about player safety above all else. We just came off of a lockout where player safety was core to the players' complaints, and just came off of a massive controversy about concussions.

For PR reasons alone, the NFL would have to come down hard.


if they were really concerned with player saftey they would remove all pads, give every flags, and when the flag is pulled the player would be down. The NFL enjoys the big hits, the NFL wants the big hits, the NFL mics up the better players to record those hits, the NFL has commercials showing the big hits, and the NFL is now concerned people are hitting too hard? So, if there wasn't a bounty would the NFL be okay with a player hitting another player hard and injuring them? Oh, wait, they are okay with it, they just have to act incensed when it occurs...or when someone points out that it is taking place.
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#1673210 - 03/05/12 01:42 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Reminds you of the "steroid" issue.
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#1673214 - 03/05/12 01:43 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Its also funny how the Pats won 18 in a row after they were caught, and their defensive problems have more to do with poor drafting and Belechicks stubborness to think he can just plug and play the Albert Haynesworths of the world.

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying. The pats broke the rules after being told not to tape, and they paid a price for that as they should have.

But if you don't think this is not more serious than the taping, you are not seeing the picture.
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#1673218 - 03/05/12 01:46 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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It could be equated with a pitcher throwing at a batter to take him out of a game.

Glad Clemens got it out of his system before he left the Sox.
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#1673220 - 03/05/12 01:47 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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I would equate if the players had a pool.
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#1673223 - 03/05/12 01:50 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Bob The Banker]
Stupendous Man Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bob The Banker
Originally Posted By: Sox hopeful 2012
Thanks for the refresher Ed..my point is this is more serious. Do you need a rule against everything?

How in the world is this more serious? Yes, they put bounties on players, but the same in-game rules applied to those players as anyone else...


that's the thing. As far as I can tell, the bonuses weren't just for clean hits (although I haven't seen a source specifically stating that).

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#1673225 - 03/05/12 01:51 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Sox in '13]
Bob The Banker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sox hopeful 2012

But if you don't think this is not more serious than the taping, you are not seeing the picture.

This is not more serious then taping what-so-ever. The taping violated the integrity of the game. It illegally altered the outcomes of games.

Although the bounties motivated players to injure someone, they still needed to play witin the rules and were penalized for not doing so. Furthermore, teams/players do the exact same thing without the exchange of money - hence the Giants announcing the legal targeting of Kyle Williams with not reprecussions what-so-ever.

Patriot fans, like yourself, are just jumping all over this as an opportunity to put "Spygate" in the past or to make something else seem worse so the "Spygate" fiasco is not deemed so evil.

Was this bounty program bad? Yes. Was it worse than Spygate? No -- not even close. In fact, it has nothing to do with, is no where along the lines of Spygate, and Spygate has aboslutely NO relevence to this what-so-ever. The only reason you are bringing it up is because you are taking this as an opportunity to down-play Spygate.

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#1673238 - 03/05/12 01:57 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Was this bounty program bad? Yes. Was it worse than Spygate? No -- not even close. In fact, it has nothing to do with, is no where along the lines of Spygate, and Spygate has aboslutely NO relevence to this what-so-ever. The only reason you are bringing it up is because you are taking this as an opportunity to down-play Spygate.


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#1673242 - 03/05/12 02:01 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Bob, despite what you think, I am not one of those Pats fans you refer to-I have always said they broke the rules and deserved the penalty they paid. Trust me-when that comes up on sports radio up here, there are plenty of yahoos that try to defend Beleichick for what he did-I am not one of them.

Please take a moment to re read the order of the posts- Tex brought up spygate, not me. I responded to it.


Edited by Sox hopeful 2012 (03/05/12 02:12 PM)
Edit Reason: corrected my reference
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#1673248 - 03/05/12 02:04 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Sox in '13]
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Originally Posted By: Sox hopeful 2012
Bob, despite what you think, I am not one of those Pats fans you refer to-I have always said they broke the rules and deserved the penalty they paid. Trust me-when that comes up on sports radio up here, there are plenty of yahoos that try to defend Beleichick for what he did-I am not one of them.

Please take a moment to re read the order of the posts- Ed brought up spygate, not me. I responded to it.


Nah

Take another re-read Texmex brough it up I just responded
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#1673250 - 03/05/12 02:06 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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Fair enough Ed...my bad.
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#1673263 - 03/05/12 02:16 PM Re: Saints Bounties [Re: Stupendous Man]
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snip from weei.com:


Peter King of Sports Illustrated and NBC Sports joined the Mut & Merloni show Monday morning to give his take on the Saints' bounty scandal.

Most of the attention has centered on former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams for organizing the bounty program, with coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Looms next in line, but King said punishments are likely for players as well.

"I think some guys on the Saints, some players, are going to get suspended," King said. "I think Jonathan Vilma is very likely to get suspended for his role in this. There's a confidential NFL document that I have possession of that basically says that Vilma offered [$]10,000 in cash for anybody that would knock Brett Favre out of the [2009 NFC championship game]. This thing is not just going to end with Gregg Williams, Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis."

That said, King predicts Williams will face the most serious penalty.

"I'd be very surprised if Williams didn't get it the worst," King said. "Especially now that it's coming out that in Buffalo and Washington -- and for all we know, maybe the other places he's coached -- he's instituted such bounty systems. He may have done it everywhere, he may not. We'll see. But he's the guy who handed out the envelopes with the money on Saturday nights at team meetings. They've got that down solid. And I'm sure that he admitted it to the league. So, I think that he's probably going to get hit the hardest of any of those three. But they're all going to be under some pressure from the league, without any question. I think they'll all be subject to severe penalties."

King said he does not expect Saints owner Tom Benson will fire Payton or Loomis. "I think that Benson believes, from what I'm told, that this is the work of one rogue football coach," King said, adding that with the Saints doing so well lately, Benson would be hesitant to mess up what he's got going in New Orleans.

King predicts the league will announce the penalties within two weeks, and the punishment will be harsher than what the Patriots received for Spygate.

"I believe this penalty is going to approximate closer the Alex Karras-Paul Hornung yearlong suspension in 1963 for gambling than it is going to be close to the Spygate penalties," King said. "This is just far more wide-ranging with so many more people involved, and I think a lot more people are going to be penalized. I don't know that anybody is going to get suspended for a year -- if anybody does, it would be Williams, I would think -- but I just think at this point it's going to be significantly more severe than Spygate."
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