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#19049 - 05/30/02 03:02 PM debit card captured at ATM
Justin Case Offline
Platinum Poster

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 741
Loc: first lily pad on the right
Here's the story*: customer uses his Visa Check Card to make a withdrawal at an ATM. Customer gets his cash but waits too long to retrieve card and it's sucked back into the machine. Customer goes in to the bank & tells them what happened. Upon getting the card from the ATM, the bank tells the customer that they cannot give him his card back because the card is in his business name (it's a consumer card & the back of the card is signed with the customer's regular signature). The bank is claiming there is "a law" that prohibits them from giving his card back because the business name is embossed on the card. I've never heard of this. Anyone know of a law like this? It sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.
Any input would be appreciated.
Leslie C.


*of a man named Brady...
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#19050 - 05/30/02 03:16 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
Andy Z Online

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Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 25240
Loc: On the Net
I can't say that I have ever heard of this law. Can they provide a valid cite, which excludes "thats the way we've always done it".
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#19051 - 05/30/02 03:25 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
wpdcad Offline
100 Club

Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 194
As a matter of policy we always cut a captured card in half and send it to our ATM processor for return to the bank of issue. We never go out to an ATM and remove a captured card and return it to the customer.
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#19052 - 05/30/02 03:30 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
Justin Case Offline
Platinum Poster

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 741
Loc: first lily pad on the right
I can see destroying the card if it was captured on command, meaning it was statused lost/stolen by the issuer. But how unfortunate for cardholders whose cards are captured due to a machine malfunction or, in this case, slow hands!

I have asked the issuing bank to ask the ATM owning bank to cite "the law" they mentioned.
Leslie Croaker
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#19053 - 05/30/02 03:37 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
John Burnett Online
10K Club

Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 30552
Loc: Cape Cod
In my old "black and white" rules days, when I helped run our ATM program, we used to have a hard and fast rule about captured cards -- cut 'em up and forward to the processor.

Then the processor told us they would no longer forward cards to issuers, and we just cut 'em up.

Then we woke up to realize that cards are "captured" for two reasons -- either the issuer has hot-listed the card and asked for capture, or something else went wrong (customer waited too long, card transport malfunctioned, etc.)

We also found that we could tell from our ATM journal which cards had been "command captured" and which had been malfunctions, etc. We started giving back all but the command-captured cards, if the customer requested and could prove ID.

Interesting how my "black and white" rules got grayer as I got older. I guess it's not just the locks.

One thing we would not (and will not) usually do is to take a machine down in the middle of the day just to retrieve a card. It exposes our staff too much, since a number of our machines are second-island drive ups.
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#19054 - 05/31/02 08:13 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
Over and Under Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 47
Loc: Acton, Massachusetts
Our network has a rule that I expect is not unusual. If you return a captured card and it is shown to have been used fraudulently after you returned it, then you are liable to the issuing bank. Therefore, the only cards we return are those of our own depositors. The network provides an electronic means for us to notify the issuer of the captured card that we just destroyed it.
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#19055 - 06/04/03 02:12 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
Compliance Buzz Offline
Gold Star

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 283
Loc: NJ
Can I assume, then, that our policy of not returning non-customer captured cards is not violating any type of regulation? We have a customer today who is claiming that their bank told them that we must return the card within 24 hours upon their request. I told the branch that it was hog-wash and to not return the card the the person.
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#19056 - 06/04/03 03:20 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
John Burnett Online
10K Club

Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 30552
Loc: Cape Cod
Once again, the rules are those of the ATM network. If your bank belongs to a bunch of networks (as mine does), you need to know which network handled the transaction request. If the network rule says "cut up the card and don't give it back," your bank could be liable for losses incurred by the issuing bank if you give the card back.

On the other hand, if the network rule is "return other than command-captured cards to the cardholder within 24 hours upon presentation of adequate ID," your bank could be liable for network sanctions if you fail to do that.

Absent any network rule (and I haven't heard of network that's silent on this), you stick by whatever your policy is.
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#19057 - 06/04/03 03:49 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
Tina A Sweet Offline
Diamond Poster

Registered: 08/21/01
Posts: 1033
Loc: Marysville, Ca.
John,

I have a question in regards to Reg E or Visa transaction error resolution. If I understand correctly, if a debit card is used in an ATM PIN driven then the activity for those transactions would be under the Reg E timeline and dollar liabiliyt. If completed through the VISA system i.e. purchases, then VISA's timeline and dollars would apply. Am I understanding this correctly?
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#19058 - 06/04/03 04:43 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
John Burnett Online
10K Club

Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 30552
Loc: Cape Cod
That is generally correct. Both transactions are subject to Regulation E. However, Visa rules apply to a Visa transaction, which is generally a PINned POS.

Your post gives me an opportunity to suggest something, Tina. It's generally not a great idea to "piggy-back" a completely different question on an established thread. Doing so prevents other interested BOLers from seeing the topic of your question, and someone with the answer might have decided not to go further with a thread about captured cards. So give your question all the exposure it deserves and start a new thread of your own with a subject describing the question.
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BankersOnline.com

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#19059 - 06/05/03 03:16 PM Re: debit card captured at ATM
c.a.r Offline
Gold Star

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 375
Loc: Texas, USA
Quote:


Absent any network rule (and I haven't heard of network that's silent on this), you stick by whatever your policy is.



I spoke to our operations area and requested a copy of our networks policy on cards captured and was informed they did not have a policy it was up to the bank. They (the network)go thru VISA. Any comments, suggestions, links etc..
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