Jack bought an investment home for Jill to live in. Deed is in both of their names. Jack now wants to borrower money to make repairs to the investment home in his name alone. So if this is business purpose for him disclosures wouldn't normally be required. But if Jill is getting ROR won't she need a TIL? So then we would need to provide disclosures?

The loan is either business purpose (and therefore exempt from Reg. Z and everything in Reg. Z, including rescission) or it's consumer purpose. Based on the idea of "Jack buying a home for Jill to live in" though, i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what the "business" purpose of this loan would be.

Me, too.

JMHO, If Jill is on Deed, it is owner occupied residential property.

The fact that Jill is on the deed also says that this is not business purpose.

Sort of similar situation:

Dad, son, and son's wife are on the note, but the property is in Dad & Mom's names. Son and wife actually live in the home. So, we have a loan for 2 out of the 3 the borrowers' primary residence, but the occupants are not the owners. How the heck do we handle this one for ROR, HPML, and HMDA?

I just found this thread, which more closely matches our situation except that in our case one of the owners (Dad) IS signing the note. http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1804846

So, if I am following this correctly, we need to jump through all of the hoops for all of the regs just like we would if Son and Wife owned the house. Including escrow under .35. Is that right?

I believe you do; however don't think rescission is required since the owners (mom and dad) don't live there. For rescission you have to have ownership interest and it has to be their primary residence.

I don't think you have to treat as HPML either (so no mandatory escrow) as the owners don't live in the house. For HMDA, i'd classify it as non-owner occupied.

I remember having to have Dan pound in my head the concept that it can't be someone's "primary residence" for HPML purposes if they don't have ownership of the home.

Just to be absolutely crystal clear:

RESPA applies
MDIA applies
ROR does not apply
HPML does not apply
HMDA = non-owner occupied

Is that the general consensus? This one has me really thrown for a loop today.

FWIW, yes, i agree with you.

OK. For some reason exempting this one from HPML is making me scratch.

Yeah, I think I have an eye twitch on your behalf regarding the HPML issue.

Dad is signing the note...but it's not his primary residence. Son and his wife also on the note....but they have no ownership in dwelling...right?

Right.

I'm working on a couple of projects so my time on BOL for the next few day is limited but I ran across this and wanted to repsond.

From 1026.35:

(a) Definitions. For purposes of this section:

(1) "Higher-priced mortgage loan" means a closed-end consumer credit transaction secured by the consumer's principal dwelling . . .

Dad does not live in the house - HMPL does not apply.

Son and spouse do not have ownership in the property - its not their dwelling, it belongs to the dad - HPML does not apply.

Yeah, I always like Dan's interpretation on this...the 'scratch' comes from their use of the word 'the consumer' and just what the heck that means and I think, if memory serves me right, you have to go back to definitions to know what the heck they meant by that, really.

OK, thanks, everybody. FWIW, part of my problem was flipping back and forth between the section of the reg and the definitions and trying to figure out exactly what they mean relative to each other.

I appreciate all the help!

Consumer means the borrower in Z.

(11) Consumer means a cardholder or natural person to whom consumer credit is offered or extended. However, for purposes of rescission under §§1026.15 and 1026.23, the term also includes a natural person in whose principal dwelling a security interest is or will be retained or acquired, if that person's ownership interest in the dwelling is or will be subject to the security interest.