Skip to content
BOL Conferences
Learn More - Click Here!

Page 1 of 2 1 2
New Reply Thread Options
#1650356 - 01/12/12 08:01 PM Depositing check into deceased customer's account
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quick explanation:

We have a customer who has died this morning. Customer's daughter informed us over the phone about this, and indicated that she has a check made payable to her mother (now deceased) that she wants to deposit into her mother's account. She of course doesn't have a death certificate or anything like that yet.

My question is: can we deposit that check without having to fear any legal complications, given that we're aware the customer is no longer alive?

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#1650372 - 01/12/12 08:06 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Doug Hendrickson Offline
Power Poster
Doug Hendrickson
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,927
I would not allow the deposit now that you are aware of the facts. Once someone has been named as the personal representative then that person can deposit the check with the proper endorsement.
_________________________
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.--Confucius

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#1651549 - 01/17/12 04:32 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
If the check is payable to the decedent and the account was only in the decedent's name, the bank can accept it for deposit unless it's a Social Security or similar recurring check payment from the Treasury or a check from an insurance company dated on or after the date of death. But no one can write checks or otherwise remove funds from the account other than the personal representative of the estate (unless the account is closed out by next of kin under state laws addressing small balance accounts.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#1651755 - 01/17/12 07:32 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Compli(cated) Offline
100 Club
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 185
Wisconsin
John, under what authority would the daughter be indorsing the check?
_________________________
Opinions are my own.
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly. I said I don't know." - Mark Twain

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#1651761 - 01/17/12 07:40 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
BrendaC Offline
Power Poster
BrendaC
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,029
Sweet Home AL
I would stamp or endorse as..."For deposit only into the account of the within payee."

If the item isn't one of those mentioned by John, there is no conversion of assets so there shouldn't be a problem. Would I do it for a $50,000 check? No. Would I do it for a $50 check within only a few days of death (and obviously written to individual prior to his/her death). Probably.
_________________________
Life without Jesus is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#1652770 - 01/19/12 03:46 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
Thanks, Brenda. I'd not want the daughter to indorse the check at all. I'd fall back on UCC 4-205, which addresses deposited unindorsed checks.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#1655739 - 01/25/12 05:23 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Compli(cated) Offline
100 Club
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 185
Wisconsin
John, isn't UCC 4-205 limited to customers depositing/cashing checks? The daughter is not a customer in this case, nor does she have authority to act on behalf of the customer.

ยง 4-205. DEPOSITARY BANK HOLDER OF UNINDORSED ITEM.
If a customer delivers an item to a depositary bank for collection:

(1) the depositary bank becomes a holder of the item at the time it receives the item for collection if the customer at the time of delivery was a holder of the item, whether or not the customer indorses the item, and, if the bank satisfies the other requirements of Section 3-302, it is a holder in due course; and
(2) the depositary bank warrants to collecting banks, the payor bank or other payor, and the drawer that the amount of the item was paid to the customer or deposited to the customer's account.
_________________________
Opinions are my own.
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly. I said I don't know." - Mark Twain

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#1656203 - 01/26/12 01:55 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
You are definitely no dodo, doedoe. UCC 4-205 would probably not be the best on which to rely.

There will be checks payable to the decedent that could be a problem if deposited after the date of death. Examples are annuity payments and certain Treasury payments. There will also be checks that a bank could safely accept for deposit to the decedent's (formerly individually-held) account since they represent funds due the estate.

As a practical matter, endorsements are concerns when there are problems or claims after the fact. When there aren't any other claims to the funds, whether or not there's an endorsement isn't usually a concern. I don't say this to advocate chaos; I'm just pointing out that there are "gray areas" where things just get done in the name of expediency. There's no rule saying it's OK to do it that way, but it often falls into the "no harm, no foul" zone.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2003774 - 03/24/15 09:20 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account John Burnett
Anonymous
Unregistered

We have a new twist on this subject.

One of our customers issues annuities. They recently found out that one of their annuity customers passed away in 2013. The annutity named no beneficiaries and so should have ceased on the owners death. Since his passing the company has sent three annuity payments that appear to have been deposited by the son of the decedent.

What can we do to retrieve a refund from the son or the bank who has been depositing funds made payable to the deceased.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2003786 - 03/24/15 09:45 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
rlcarey Online
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,222
Galveston, TX
Well, the endorsement has either been forged or the named payee has not received the funds, which represents a breach of the presentment warranty by the BOFD. State law will dictate how long you can go back to make a claim against the BOFD.
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2003942 - 03/25/15 04:04 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

Thanks Randy!

Our state is three years.

In this case we will send a letter to the BOFD explaining the situation and requesting a refund.

Are we at all obligated to refund our customer if we don't receive a refund from the BOFD?

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2006653 - 04/07/15 08:02 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
sbrelje Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
The BOFD is requesting a hold harmless indemnification. This doesn't seem appropriate in this case. Any thoughts?

If the BOFD isn't willing to refund us without sending the indemnificaiton are we obligated to refund our customer?

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2006848 - 04/08/15 06:10 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
RockChucker, CAMS Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,700
The Country
When we receive these requests we often request a hold harmless just to CYA. But that is normally when we discover the issue and report it.
_________________________
A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him.
-David Brinkley

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2006872 - 04/08/15 07:23 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
JacF Offline

Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
If you're asserting that the BOFD breached their warranty, then a hold harmless agreement is not appropriate to include with your claim.

That said, did you send anything else to the BOFD, such as forged endorsement affidavits, or which you are basing your warranty claim? Depending on how your claim is presented, it is entirely possible that the BOFD is requesting a hold harmless simply because they are not recognizing this as a breach of warranty claim.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2007045 - 04/09/15 02:41 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
sbrelje Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
We did not send a forged endorsement affidavit. We don't have much experience in making a forged endorsement claim and don't have a process. Is anyone willing to share a procedure and/or forms that they may have?

Some specific questions that we have are;

1. If the BOFD doesn't provide the refund are we required to make our customer whole?
2. Should our customer be contacting the BOFD directly or does this need to come from us?
3. Should our cusotmer be contacting the family of the deceased or should these all be handled through the BOFD.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2007047 - 04/09/15 02:56 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
rlcarey Online
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,222
Galveston, TX
One more,

Should the Bank sit down with their legal counsel and work out the basis for internal procedures for handling such claims in your jurisdiction?
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2007106 - 04/09/15 04:17 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
sbrelje Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
And one more,

Can this be run through the Fed as an adjustment?

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2007123 - 04/09/15 04:55 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
JacF Offline

Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
A warranty breach would be handled directly between the banks, not run through Fed.

Randy's suggestion to get bank counsel involved is good advice, especially if you don't already have affidavit templates that have been reviewed by counsel.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2011414 - 04/30/15 08:08 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

At our bank, a customer is "deceased" when we receive WRITTEN notification ADDRESSED to the bank or ACH notification from the Social Security Administration. Until we have received either of these, it's business as usual. In other words, we would accept the check for deposit.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2011430 - 04/30/15 08:23 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
That's foolish...
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2011441 - 04/30/15 08:45 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Adam F Offline
Gold Star
Adam F
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 420
VA
Does this mean that if the customer had a power of attorney and you knew the customer was decreased, but had not "received WRITTEN notification ADDRESSED to the bank or ACH notification from the Social Security Administration" that you would allow that power of attorney to drain money from the account?

Seems to me the bank would be putting themselves in a very bad position.
_________________________
It is better to act cautiously beforehand than to suffer afterward.

The answers I give are my opinions. Not legal advice.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2011799 - 05/04/15 02:17 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
A bank gets "knowledge" from lots of different sources. Drawing too tight a definition on what constitutes "notice" can get a bank into trouble if it pays checks from an account or accepts Treasury direct deposits of recurring benefit payments (for example). If the bank learns of a customer's death from what might be "unofficial" sources, it should have a process for verifying that information; it can't simply ignore it.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2011866 - 05/04/15 05:11 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
JacF Offline

Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
To echo John's point:

While you certainly wouldn't want to pay out funds or otherwise take an action that can't be undone without official notice (ie: death certificate) of a customer's death, it is appropriate to respond to less formal notice by taking steps to protect the deceased depositor's funds.

See this discussion for more.

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2183781 - 06/30/18 12:27 AM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

Originally Posted By Anonymous
Quick explanation:

We have a customer who has died this morning. Customer's daughter informed us over the phone about this, and indicated that she has a check made payable to her mother (now deceased) that she wants to deposit into her mother's account. She of course doesn't have a death certificate or anything like that yet.

My question is: can we deposit that check without having to fear any legal complications, given that we're aware the customer is no longer alive?

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#2242097 - 09/04/20 08:30 PM Re: Depositing check into deceased customer's account Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered

FbXHbk
My son passed and I am waiting for the Probate to go through but it takes time. I have checks made out in his name, 1 from a security deposit from his apartment we closed up, another from a cable company that owed money after we sent back the equipment and IRS tax money coming back . All checks are in his name and who knows how many more will come in. I am afraid that probate will take longer than the 90 days that I can hold the checks before depositing. All I want to do is deposit in his bank account that is now a closed on hold account that I cannot get into until Probate assigns me legally as the executor. Can I do that? If not what do I do with the checks?

Return to Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Quick Reply:
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled




Moderator:  MagicCity, P*Q, Truffle Royale