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#277138 - 11/19/04 02:44 PM
Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,855
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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DId anyone see the interview with him last night, a hour hour special? I only saw a small portion, but he views his affair with Monica Lewinsky "a minor personal indescretion" that was "seized upon by his rivals and he was prosecuted unfairly and the majority of constitutional scholars agree that he should not have been impeached."
He sure has an interesting view of reality.
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Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#277139 - 11/19/04 02:51 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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#277141 - 11/19/04 03:03 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
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Heard Rush refer to it as the Clinton Library and Massage Parlor.
Now that's funny.
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#277142 - 11/19/04 03:14 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Heard Rush refer to it as the Clinton Library and Massage Parlor.
Now that's funny.
To each his own. I don't think it is funny, or even very clever. Couldn't Rush have come up with something more amusing and less obvious than that...sounds like a joke someone in high school might make.
FLUSH RUSH!
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#277143 - 11/19/04 03:17 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Heard Rush refer to it as the Clinton Library and Massage Parlor.
Now that's funny.
To each his own. I don't think it is funny, or even very clever. Couldn't Rush have come up with something more amusing and less obvious than that...sounds like a joke someone in high school might make.
FLUSH RUSH!
maybe rush was high on oxycontin and thought it was funny. or he was making a deal for his maid to get him some prescription drugs and he was making that joke for her over the phone, forgetting that the "on-air" button was lit.
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#277144 - 11/19/04 03:19 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Heard Rush refer to it as the Clinton Library and Massage Parlor.
Now that's funny.
To each his own. I don't think it is funny, or even very clever. Couldn't Rush have come up with something more amusing and less obvious than that...sounds like a joke someone in high school might make.
FLUSH RUSH!
maybe rush was high on oxycontin and thought it was funny. or he was making a deal for his maid to get him some prescription drugs and he was making that joke for her over the phone, forgetting that the "on-air" button was lit.
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#277145 - 11/19/04 03:22 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Heard Rush refer to it as the Clinton Library and Massage Parlor.
Now that's funny.
To each his own. I don't think it is funny, or even very clever. Couldn't Rush have come up with something more amusing and less obvious than that...sounds like a joke someone in high school might make.
FLUSH RUSH!
Maybe Rush should remove the plank from his own eye before he makes fun of someone else. 
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#277146 - 11/19/04 03:25 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The building looks like a double-wide trailer.
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#277147 - 11/19/04 03:26 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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From the "Fighting Terrorism" wing of the library (I wish):
During his eight years as president, he failed to make effective use of the many options that were available to him in combating bin Laden and other terrorists, making September 11 much more likely.
James Woolsey, CIA director during Mr. Clinton's first two years in office, was never able to get a one-on-one meeting with Mr. Clinton.
The president's lack of interest in intelligence matters enabled Sen. Dennis DeConcini, who had developed an intense personal dislike of Mr. Woolsey, to block the hiring of CIA Arabic-language translators.
Mr. Clinton took the politically safe path by treating the February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center as a criminal matter rather than the terrorist attack that it really was. As a result, he shut the CIA out of the investigation. Administration blundering enabled Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, a top bin Laden aide who coordinated the September 11 attacks, to escape capture in Qatar.
The Clinton administration refused offers by the government of Sudan to turn over bin Laden and objected to efforts by the Northern Alliance -- the anti-Taliban coalition in Afghanistan -- to assassinate the terrorist leader.
Mr. Clinton refused several offers by Sudan to take custody of two terrorists wanted in the August 1998 bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
On three occasions in 1999 and 2000, Mr. Clinton deferred or hesitated to launch missile strikes against bin Laden. This is but a partial listing of instances documented by
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#277148 - 11/19/04 03:26 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The building looks like a double-wide trailer.
Well, that a little bit funnier than the massage parlor joke...Rush, is that you???
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#277149 - 11/19/04 03:27 PM
Caption This Picture from Clinton Library Store
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Anonymous
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#277152 - 11/20/04 12:39 AM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Mr. Clinton took the politically safe path by treating the February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center as a criminal matter rather than the terrorist attack that it really was.
Obviously it was both criminal and terorist and was treated as such. From the 9/11 report: "The U.S. government responded vigorously when the attack was on our soil. Both Ramzi Yousef, who organized the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and Mir Amal Kansi, who in 1993 killed two CIA employees as they waited to go to work in Langley, Virginia, were the objects of relentless, uncompromising, and successful efforts to bring them back to the United States to stand trial for their crimes.
Before 9/11, al Qaeda and its affiliates had killed fewer than 50 Americans, including the East Africa embassy bombings and the Cole attack.” (p. 340)"
and
Not until 1998 did al Qaeda undertake a major terrorist operation of its own (p. 62)
Quote:
During his eight years as president, he failed to make effective use of the many options that were available to him in combating bin Laden and other terrorists
Nonsense. From the 9/11 report: "President Clinton issued a classified directive in June 1995, Presidential Decision Directive 39, which said that the United States should “deter, defeat and respond vigorously to all terrorist attacks on our territory and against our citizens.” The directive called terrorism both a matter of national security and a crime, and it assigned responsibilities to various agencies. Alarmed by the incident in Tokyo, President Clinton made it the very highest priority for his own staff and for all agencies to prepare to detect and respond to terrorism that involved chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons.”(p. 101)"
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The Clinton administration refused offers by the government of Sudan to turn over bin Laden
I didn't think that anyone was still taken in by this story after the 9/11 report: "Sudan’s minister of defense, Faith Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand bin Laden over to the United States. The Commission has found no credible evidence that this was so.” (p. 110) Footnote 7 “The CIA official who held one-on-one discussions with Erwa said that Erwa never offered to expel Bin Laden to the United States or render him to another country.” (p.479)"
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The president's lack of interest in intelligence matters
The reality: "After the August, 1998 bombing of the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, President Bill Clinton and his chief aides explored ways of getting Bin Laden expelled from Afghanistan or possibly capturing or even killing him. Although disruption efforts around the world had achieved some successes, the core of Bin Laden’s organization remained intact.
President Clinton was deeply concerned about Bin Laden. He and his national security adviser, Samuel “Sandy” Berger, ensured that they had a special daily pipeline of reports feeding them the latest updates on Bin Laden’s reported location.” (p, 174)"
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#277153 - 11/20/04 04:08 AM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Mr. Clinton took the politically safe path by treating the February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center as a criminal matter rather than the terrorist attack that it really was.
Obviously it was both criminal and terorist and was treated as such. From the 9/11 report: "The U.S. government responded vigorously when the attack was on our soil. Both Ramzi Yousef, who organized the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and Mir Amal Kansi, who in 1993 killed two CIA employees as they waited to go to work in Langley, Virginia, were the objects of relentless, uncompromising, and successful efforts to bring them back to the United States to stand trial for their crimes.
Before 9/11, al Qaeda and its affiliates had killed fewer than 50 Americans, including the East Africa embassy bombings and the Cole attack.” (p. 340)"
and
Not until 1998 did al Qaeda undertake a major terrorist operation of its own (p. 62)
Quote:
During his eight years as president, he failed to make effective use of the many options that were available to him in combating bin Laden and other terrorists
Nonsense. From the 9/11 report: "President Clinton issued a classified directive in June 1995, Presidential Decision Directive 39, which said that the United States should “deter, defeat and respond vigorously to all terrorist attacks on our territory and against our citizens.” The directive called terrorism both a matter of national security and a crime, and it assigned responsibilities to various agencies. Alarmed by the incident in Tokyo, President Clinton made it the very highest priority for his own staff and for all agencies to prepare to detect and respond to terrorism that involved chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons.”(p. 101)"
Quote:
The Clinton administration refused offers by the government of Sudan to turn over bin Laden
I didn't think that anyone was still taken in by this story after the 9/11 report: "Sudan’s minister of defense, Faith Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand bin Laden over to the United States. The Commission has found no credible evidence that this was so.” (p. 110) Footnote 7 “The CIA official who held one-on-one discussions with Erwa said that Erwa never offered to expel Bin Laden to the United States or render him to another country.” (p.479)"
Quote:
The president's lack of interest in intelligence matters
The reality: "After the August, 1998 bombing of the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, President Bill Clinton and his chief aides explored ways of getting Bin Laden expelled from Afghanistan or possibly capturing or even killing him. Although disruption efforts around the world had achieved some successes, the core of Bin Laden’s organization remained intact.
President Clinton was deeply concerned about Bin Laden. He and his national security adviser, Samuel “Sandy” Berger, ensured that they had a special daily pipeline of reports feeding them the latest updates on Bin Laden’s reported location.” (p, 174)"
You missed a couple. Were the others just irrefutable or did you get tired of quoting the bi-partisan report (emphasis on the word "partisan"). There was no way that panel was going to really fault either party. It was not independent. It was a sham.
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#277154 - 11/20/04 04:08 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
You know what I saw? I saw him calling to the US to unite and put the division behind them. I saw him saying lets forget the things that divide us and concentrate on the good things. I saw him standing side by side with Bush and Kerry with everyone smiling.
I don't like what he did, but he is right, it was a personal (not minor in my book) indescretion that was seized upon by his rivals, and he was prosecuted beyond the scope of the normal.
But who cares? His library is beautiful, the bridge symbology in the structure is appropriate right now to remind us to make a bridge uniting us all. I was moved.
I just wish President Ford could have made it. The fact that he couldn't means we may be losing another former President soon.
All of the former presidents and the current president were calling for the country to unite. Clinton certainly doesn't want this because it would make the republicans look good and hurt his wifes chances at winning in 2008. It's nothing but talk. It isn't going to happen.
Clinton was not impeached because he got a bj in the oval office. He was impeached because he perjured himself in a court of law. You know at any other job Clinton would have been fired or at least reprimanded for having sex on the job. Should he have been impeached for the act? Probably not. Should he have been impeached for breaking federal law in a court of law? Yes, and he got what he deserved. He essentially was reprimanded. If it had been a republican, he would have been impeached and removed or forced to resign.
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#277155 - 11/21/04 09:07 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Clinton was impeached because the Republicans controlled the House of Representatives. It was a partisan attack by politicians that put the best interest of their party above the best interest of their country. The fact that their case was weak can be seen by the fact that they fell short of having their charges upheld in the Senate by seventeen votes - over one-sixth of the Senate! They knew they could never win from the start. You said that "he perjured himself in a court of law". Actually, the definition of perjury requires that the untrue statement must be of a "material" fact, and the Lewinsky affair had no bearing on the Jones case. One was a consensual affair and the other involved a claim of unwanted harrassment. In addition, it happened in a deposition, not in court. Before the grand jury, Clinton acknowledeged his relationship with Lewinsky. Quote:
If it had been a republican, he would have been impeached and removed or forced to resign.
What a joke! If he had been a Republican there would have been nothing done. Bush could do anything and the current Congress wouldn't impeach him. It's all about politics.
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#277156 - 11/21/04 10:55 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Clinton was impeached because the Republicans controlled the House of Representatives. It was a partisan attack by politicians that put the best interest of their party above the best interest of their country. The fact that their case was weak can be seen by the fact that they fell short of having their charges upheld in the Senate by seventeen votes - over one-sixth of the Senate! They knew they could never win from the start.
You said that "he perjured himself in a court of law". Actually, the definition of perjury requires that the untrue statement must be of a "material" fact, and the Lewinsky affair had no bearing on the Jones case. One was a consensual affair and the other involved a claim of unwanted harrassment. In addition, it happened in a deposition, not in court. Before the grand jury, Clinton acknowledeged his relationship with Lewinsky.
Quote:
If it had been a republican, he would have been impeached and removed or forced to resign.
What a joke! If he had been a Republican there would have been nothing done. Bush could do anything and the current Congress wouldn't impeach him. It's all about politics.
OK, you have defended him with the law. What do you personally think about Clinton's actions in and out of the White House: affairs, alleged unwanted sexual advances, interns, protesting Vietnam in England, Branch Davidians, Cuban boy in FL, fight against terrorism, support of the CIA, Whitewater, affairs? I am not asking for comparison with any administration, current or past, just what do you honestly think about his actions? I am not asking what some bi-partisan panel or court discovered, I am asking your opinion.
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#277157 - 11/22/04 12:23 AM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
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Quote:
What do you personally think about Clinton's actions in and out of the White House: affairs, alleged unwanted sexual advances, interns, protesting Vietnam in England, Branch Davidians, Cuban boy in FL, fight against terrorism, support of the CIA, Whitewater, affairs?
Quite a list. Ok, the affairs were stupid. It would be hard to be married to someone like that, but that's not my problem.
I don't think that the claims of unwanted advances had much to support them.
Protesting Viet Nam (whereever) is not a problem, it was a poor government policy and he certainly had a right to express disapproval, as did many others.
The Branch Davidians???? They were proven in four or five different investigations to have set fire to their own complex. Koresh preached that he and his followers would die in a fire and rise again in a year. I don't know how they could have been kept from doing so.
Elian Gonzalez - should he NOT have been returned to his father? I can't imagine why not. He was a Cuban citizen and he was a little boy with only one remaining parent.
In the fight against terror there are probably things he could have done differently, but if you read the 9/11 Commission report you will see he certainly did a good job on the whole.
Support for the CIA? I'm not sure what you mean by this one. Do you mean funding? I know the CIA under Clinton established a separate group just to deal with bin Laden.
Whitewater? What about Whitewater? If there had been something illegal about that don't you think that the investigation would have found it? It isn't as though they didn't spend enough money or take enough time with it. Certainly Starr tried hard enough, why couldn't he find anything?
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#277158 - 11/22/04 01:30 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you personally think about Clinton's actions in and out of the White House: affairs, alleged unwanted sexual advances, interns, protesting Vietnam in England, Branch Davidians, Cuban boy in FL, fight against terrorism, support of the CIA, Whitewater, affairs?
Quite a list. Ok, the affairs were stupid. It would be hard to be married to someone like that, but that's not my problem.
I don't think that the claims of unwanted advances had much to support them.
Protesting Viet Nam (whereever) is not a problem, it was a poor government policy and he certainly had a right to express disapproval, as did many others.
The Branch Davidians???? They were proven in four or five different investigations to have set fire to their own complex. Koresh preached that he and his followers would die in a fire and rise again in a year. I don't know how they could have been kept from doing so.
Elian Gonzalez - should he NOT have been returned to his father? I can't imagine why not. He was a Cuban citizen and he was a little boy with only one remaining parent.
In the fight against terror there are probably things he could have done differently, but if you read the 9/11 Commission report you will see he certainly did a good job on the whole.
Support for the CIA? I'm not sure what you mean by this one. Do you mean funding? I know the CIA under Clinton established a separate group just to deal with bin Laden.
Whitewater? What about Whitewater? If there had been something illegal about that don't you think that the investigation would have found it? It isn't as though they didn't spend enough money or take enough time with it. Certainly Starr tried hard enough, why couldn't he find anything?
OK, what about sex in the Whitehouse with a college aged intern? Could you or the president of your bank survived that with your job? Do you think the Pres of the U.S. should have survived it with his? If not, what's the difference between his job and the pres of your bank that would get one canned, but not the other?
To most people the problem with protesting Vietnam War was not about the protest, but was about doing it on foreign soil. To me, it was neither, it was about him lying about it while running for president. He did lie about it. When he finally admitted it in 1992, he said that he thought those asking about it were asking him if he led the protest in England. That was a bald faced lie and the first inkling to me that he'd could lie while looking you straight in the eyes.
CIA. He crammed the CIA top brass with bureaucrats rather than former agents. It was meant to be a kindler, gentler CIA. Instead the kinder, gentler policies the CIA adopted it just stripped them of many of their powers overseas.
The Koresh thing. I was not talking about the fire. I am talking about the handling of the entire thing, start to finish. It was bungled from the start to the finish. Starting with the agents riding up in broad daylight in full sight of a group known to be armed. Then Janet Reno employed hostage negotiators to negotiate. These were not hostage takers. There were no hostages. They ignored the local sheriff who told them that Koresh vowed that he'd never go back to jail. The sheriff predicted that he kill himself and everyone else before going back to jail, but the Justice Department shut him out as a local yokel.
Whitewater. Just because there is no conviction does not always mean there is no smoke and no fire. Just ask O.J. If you work in a bank, you know how hard it is to prove intent in criminal matters involving money. Following the money is very difficult.
What about the Clinton administration trying to intimidate Ken Starr's staff by having them each investigated to see if there was any dirt on them? To me, that was obstruction of justice regardless of what you thought about Starr and his group of young lawyers.
Tell you what. I don't think everything said about the man was true, but I want you to read about his presidential library and look at the spin he is putting on these matters. Talk about fiction.
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#277159 - 11/22/04 02:27 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Whitewater. Just because there is no conviction does not always mean there is no smoke and no fire.
There were plenty of convictions, including one of a sitting Governor.
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#277160 - 11/22/04 03:24 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
Whitewater. Just because there is no conviction does not always mean there is no smoke and no fire.
There were plenty of convictions, including one of a sitting Governor.
I meant no convictions of a Clinton.
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#277161 - 11/22/04 03:36 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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Power Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
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Quote:
Quote:
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Whitewater. Just because there is no conviction does not always mean there is no smoke and no fire.
There were plenty of convictions, including one of a sitting Governor.
I meant no convictions of a Clinton.
Presidents rarely get convicted if they can escape being impeached. Oh wait, they can't be convicted of most crimes while they are president.... As for the wife, amazing the strings a president can pull for his wife when his wife is pulling his strings and his intern is pulling his well nevermind...
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#277162 - 11/22/04 03:36 PM
Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Whitewater. Just because there is no conviction does not always mean there is no smoke and no fire.
There were plenty of convictions, including one of a sitting Governor.
I meant no convictions of a Clinton.
$700,000 buys a lot of Webb Hubbel silence.
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