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#277163 - 11/22/04 06:28 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
hogfan Offline
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hogfan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 88
Ar
That conviction had absolutely nothing to do with "White Water". It was a totally separate business deal which did not involve Clinton.

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#277164 - 11/22/04 06:37 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
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Logging on to BOL now takes me to "Favorite Forums;" the Water Cooler and its not so "virtual" demagogues vanish. It's like flushing the toilet, all this crap goes away.

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#277165 - 11/22/04 06:53 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered





There were plenty of convictions, including one of a sitting Governor.




As Hogfan mentioned, the conviction of Gov. Jim Guy Tucker had nothing to do with Clinton or the Whitewater land deal. Tucker particpated in a fraudulent SBA loan deal in an unrelated transaction. In fact, there were no indictments or convictions from the Whitewater land deal. Starr convicted some people in what the media loosely called "the Whitewater investigation", but none involving the Clintons or the land deal.

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#277166 - 11/22/04 07:26 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
Webster Hubbell: Bill Clinton friend and political ally; Hillary Clinton Rose Law Firm partner: embezzlement; fraud; two felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Whither Whitewater?" October 18, 1995)

Jim Guy Tucker: fraud; three felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Second-Term Stall" February 11, 1997; Associated Press "Tucker Pleads Guilty to Cable Fraud" February 20, 1998)

William J. Marks Sr.: Jim Guy Tucker business partner; one conspiracy conviction (Associated Press "Whitewater Defendant Pleads Guilty" August 28, 1997)

Jim McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally: eighteen felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Immunize Hale" May 29, 1996)

Susan McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend; former wife of Jim McDougal: four felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Immunize Hale" May 29, 1996)

David Hale: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally: two felony convictions of conspiracy and mail fraud (Wall Street Journal "The Arkansas Machine Strikes Back" March 19, 1996)

Chris Wade: Whitewater real estate broker; two felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995)

Stephen Smith: former Governor Clinton aide; one conviction (Wall Street Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995)

Larry Kuca: Madison real estate agent; fraudulent loans (Wall Steet Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995)

Robert Palmer: Madison appraiser; one conspiracy felony conviction (Wall Street Journal "Hale Predicts Hillary Conviction" October 21, 1996)

Neal Ainley: Perry County Bank president; embezzled bank funds for Clinton campaign; two misdemeanor convictions (Wall Street Journal "Arkansas Bank Shot" May 4, 1995)

John Latham: Madison Bank CEO; bank fraud conviction (Wall Street Journal "Smoke Without Fire" January 12, 1996)

John Haley: attorney for Jim Guy Tucker; misdemeanor guilty plea; tax fraud (Associated Press "Tucker Pleads Guilty to Cable Fraud" February 20, 1998)

Eugene Fitzhugh: Whitewater defendant, pleaded guilty to one misdemeanor count of trying to bribe David Hale; is appealing a ten month prison sentence (The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, "Whitewater Defendants" February 22, 1998)

Charles Matthews: Whitewater defendant, pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of bribery, served fourteen months of a sixteen month prison sentence (The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, "Whitewater Defendants" February 22, 1998)

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#277167 - 11/22/04 07:37 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Robert Palmer: Madison appraiser; one conspiracy felony conviction (Wall Street Journal "Hale Predicts Hillary Conviction" October 21, 1996)





Wasn't he addicted to love?

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#277168 - 11/22/04 07:43 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
Apparently that Madison Guaranty money was "simply irresistable".

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#277169 - 11/22/04 07:45 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Apparently that Madison Guaranty money was "simply irresistable".





You just might as well face it....

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#277170 - 11/22/04 08:28 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Bengals Fan Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
So THAT explains how Bill ended up fooling around with his intern!

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#277171 - 11/22/04 09:43 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
hogfan Offline
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hogfan
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Posts: 88
Ar
So for instance, a lawyer stealing from his clients and partners; a "banker" who has no regard for any rules; the owner of an small business investment company who circumvented regulations to make loans, etc., etc., should be blamed on the Clintons. Make no mistake, he made moral mistakes, but to try to pin the convictions that came from the White Water investigation on him just goes too far.

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#277172 - 11/22/04 09:51 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Jokerman Offline
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A number of them were demonstrably acting to benefit him.

His wife's former law partner received almost a million dollars at the same time he was refusing to testify against them.

Let's cut to brass tacks: Mr. Clinton was likely the intended beneficiary of a sweetheart deal in a crooked land investment, the money for which was illegally loaned from a federally-insured institution.

You can say otherwise, but you'll never convince me. And I'll probably never convince you that it's possible this obviously ethically-challenged individual could have done anything wrong in this particular instance, even though his wife's receipt of a $100,000 profit on a $1,000 cattle futures investment ought to show that there is a certain proclivity for the time-honored sweetheart deal.

Therefore, I give up.

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#277173 - 11/22/04 10:15 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
MB Guy Offline
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Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
Quote:

A number of them were demonstrably acting to benefit him.

His wife's former law partner received almost a million dollars at the same time he was refusing to testify against them.

Let's cut to brass tacks: Mr. Clinton was likely the intended beneficiary of a sweetheart deal in a crooked land investment, the money for which was illegally loaned from a federally-insured institution.

You can say otherwise, but you'll never convince me. And I'll probably never convince you that it's possible this obviously ethically-challenged individual could have done anything wrong in this particular instance, even though his wife's receipt of a $100,000 profit on a $1,000 cattle futures investment ought to show that there is a certain proclivity for the time-honored sweetheart deal.

Therefore, I give up.




JM, no question that is the best course of action. For the life of me I cannot understand how people, in clear conscience, can defend morally and ethically bankrupt individuals such as Bill Clinton and his power hungry wife.
_________________________
Giddy up.

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#277174 - 11/22/04 11:25 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Jokerman: After I said: "Starr convicted some people in what the media loosely called "the Whitewater investigation", but none involving the Clintons or the land deal." you then produced a list of them. NOW can you find any that relates to the Whitewater land deal???? Of course you can't!

You also said: "A number of them were demonstrably acting to benefit him." Nonsense! Who? They were all convicted of unrelated charges.

"Let's cut to brass tacks: Mr. Clinton was likely the intended beneficiary of a sweetheart deal in a crooked land investment, the money for which was illegally loaned from a federally-insured institution." The illegal loan was to his partners, not to him. He had no benefit, they did!

"You can say otherwise, but you'll never convince me. " I'm sure that's true - your mind is obviously closed.

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#277175 - 11/22/04 11:40 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Jokerman Offline
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Quote:

NOW can you find any that relates to the Whitewater land deal???? Of course you can't!




Everybody I listed was related to Castle Grande and Madison Guaranty. Did you read the list?

Quote:

You also said: "A number of them were demonstrably acting to benefit him." Nonsense! Who? They were all convicted of unrelated charges.




How about the one who embezzled funds that wound up in Mr. Clinton's campaign funds? How about the ones who refused to testify against him.

The fact is, the deal was caught by examiners before he had the opportunity to realize a benefit from Castle Grande. The fact that he didn't doesn't mean that the individuals involved weren't acting for his benefit.

Quote:

The illegal loan was to his partners, not to him. He had no benefit, they did!




The loans were to HIS PARTNERS. HELLO??? ARE YOU EVEN READING WHAT YOU WRITE??? I agree, he didn't wind up benefitting. But that was the intent from the beginning.

Quote:

I'm sure that's true - your mind is obviously closed.




Yep, you're the one that thinks Mr. Clinton is a babe in the woods amongst all these wolves...and I'm the one with a closed mind. Ok. Like I said, I'm tired of trying.

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#277176 - 11/22/04 11:44 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
straw Offline
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Posts: 9,121
I cannot help but recall how many times the 2000 election results come up, the first response from several posters on this thread is to let it go already. And rightfully so.

How about we all take a deep breath and let all the Clinton era stuff go too.
You will have the chance to relive it all again when Hillary runs in 2008.

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#277177 - 11/23/04 12:00 AM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Clown Boy Offline
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Posts: 3,934
here and there
Can’t you see the irony in this? Former President Bill Clinton and President George W. Bush stand together at the opening of the library to remind us that we need to get over our differences in the "United" States of America, and here we are arguing about them...
I just find this funny
_________________________
I am the ringmaster of my domain!

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#277178 - 11/23/04 12:09 AM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

I cannot help but recall how many times the 2000 election results come up, the first response from several posters on this thread is to let it go already. And rightfully so.

How about we all take a deep breath and let all the Clinton era stuff go too.
You will have the chance to relive it all again when Hillary runs in 2008.




THANK YOU!!! I swear I was thinking the exact same thing as was gonna post it when I got to the bottom of the thread...and whataya know? You took the words right out of my mouth.

Over and over I keep hearing about bitter liberal anons can't let go of the 2000 election, and even the recent campaign stuff from this year. It sounds so hypocritical when the same people can't let go of the 90's.

So, from all the little bitter liberal anons, please, please, PLEASE just let it goooooooooo........

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#277179 - 11/23/04 12:40 AM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW can you find any that relates to the Whitewater land deal???? Of course you can't!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Everybody I listed was related to Castle Grande and Madison Guaranty. Did you read the list?





Yes, and that is NOT the same thing! Castle Grande is NOT Whitewater it was a separate issue and Madison was the McDougal's. Clinton wasn't even a customer of Madison, much less involved in it's operation.

Quote:

I agree, he didn't wind up benefitting. But that was the intent from the beginning.





Thank you for the first sentence, and for the second, where does your mind reading ability come from?

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#277180 - 11/23/04 02:48 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Yes, and that is NOT the same thing! Castle Grande is NOT Whitewater it was a separate issue and Madison was the McDougal's.




Well, technically they are separate. "Whitewater", however, has come to mean the entire real estate and Madison looting scandal. If you want to proclaim them innocent of this or that, while ignoring the litany of evidence for many other things, go ahead.

Quote:

Clinton wasn't even a customer of Madison, much less involved in it's operation.




That cashier's check found in the trunk of a car said otherwise (as did the institution's president). And Mrs. Clinton somewhat famously billed the institution for her legal services.

Quote:

where does your mind reading ability come from?




It's not mind-reading, it's Occam's razor.

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#277181 - 11/23/04 02:55 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
straw Offline
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straw
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Posts: 9,121
I still think Halderman was deep throat.

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#277182 - 11/23/04 03:36 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

I just love it, you conservatives just cannot get over Clinton. 8 years of the best economic times in US history, relatively peaceful times abroad (I know there were some skirmishes but nothing like now), etc. His successes drive you nuts. Let me say this real slow.....

G E T O V E R I T !!!

If you're so worried about lying, why don't you take George Bush to task on lying to get us into a war!? Seems to me that's far more egregious.

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#277183 - 11/23/04 03:58 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

First, the conservatives did not bring Clinton up. The library of spin being opened brought him up. Go check it out sometime and see the spin it puts on things. http://www.clintonpresidentialcenter.org/index.htm

Secondly, the only reason we had peace was because Clinton did not do his job. I don't call Islam-fascists killing Americans all over the world during the 90s peace. You might. I don't. Not to mention the killings in: Sudan, Kosovo, Iraq, etc....

Thirdly, if Bush lied about Iraq, then so did Clinton. There are quotes that are exactly the same as Bush said by Clinton. Bush just had the guts to say dam* the political consequences, we're going to do something about it. Clinton was too busy gettin' busy and weighing the political consequences of everything except his liaisons.

Fourth, I credit my economic success in the 1990s to hard work and good timing. I don't recall Clinton or any other President ever doing anything to put food on my table and I am insulted that they would suggest otherwise. I don't remember Clinton or any other president spearheading the technology boom of the 1990s (Unless you count Al Gore's invention of the Internet. But then I guess he'd have to take fault for the dot com bust also.)

Be sure to call me Paragon. I like it when you call me Paragon. It just feels so good for you to be wrong. Of course, when a liberal is wrong it is a mistake and when a conservative is wrong it is a lie.

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#277184 - 11/23/04 04:02 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
I don't have anything to get over, friend. You, however, apparently are still trying, Michael Moore-style, to fight the last election. Let me say this real slow:

A C C E P T ... I T !!!

Clinton was the beneficiarly of a bubble economy, he was not vigilant to keep our country secure, he never won a majority of the popular vote, and he was the second President in history to be impeached. That's the record. I am over it, the American people are over it. You and he can work the rest of your lives to redefine the "legacy", but the fact is, history will remember him as an inconsequential President at a time when the nation decided it was going to take a little break after the Cold War.

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#277185 - 11/23/04 04:04 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

I cannot help but recall how many times the 2000 election results come up, the first response from several posters on this thread is to let it go already. And rightfully so.

How about we all take a deep breath and let all the Clinton era stuff go too.
You will have the chance to relive it all again when Hillary runs in 2008.




THANK YOU!!! I swear I was thinking the exact same thing as was gonna post it when I got to the bottom of the thread...and whataya know? You took the words right out of my mouth.

Over and over I keep hearing about bitter liberal anons can't let go of the 2000 election, and even the recent campaign stuff from this year. It sounds so hypocritical when the same people can't let go of the 90's.

So, from all the little bitter liberal anons, please, please, PLEASE just let it goooooooooo........





You're right Crayon Girl. Some people can't get over a loss, whether it be their favorite football team, their kids loss in some sport or whatever. If Kerry had won, there would be a big group of bitter conservative anons doing the same thing. Some people have never learned how to lose. Those people get so mad and bitter over even the most insignificant defeat (let alone their presidential candidate losing!!!), that they will probably die early of a stress-enduced heart attack. I'm not suggesting being so laid back as to not be passionate about things, but it's important to know when to lay them to rest and go on.

That's my two-cents. Sorry I have to do it as one of those idiotic anons whose opinions don't amount to much.

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#277186 - 11/23/04 04:20 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Sometimes saying, "get over it," means you think that person's position is insignificant. I hear you saying, "We can open a library in his honor. We can discuss his legacy. We can buy his and her books about their time in the White House. We can talk about how things were so much better under the Clingons. But if you so much as mention his name negatively it is because you just can't get over it."

Liberals, that is just lame. I think the conservatives are over it. This thread began over his library being opened not over some need conservatives had to bring him up out of the blue.

Every time a former president comes out in public, it brings back the bad and good (unless that public appearance is to build a house for Habitat, like Carter).

Did you libs not discuss Reagan's legacy, good and bad, when he died. Did you not discuss Nixon's legacy every time he appeared in public. So, give me a break. There is nothing to get over. There are opinions and unless the ex-presidents go into seclusion, there will be opinions expressed when they are in the public eye. And Clinton has remained in the public eye ever since he left office in a cloud of pardons and destruction of property.

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#277187 - 11/23/04 04:35 PM Re: Clinton Presidential Library Opening
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

We can talk about how things were so much better under the Clingons.




Star Trek fan?
Things might have been better under the Clingons but I don't know because I couldn't understand the language.

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