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#278919 - 11/23/04 05:26 PM
Iraq and the Terror War
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I am a conservative, but honestly, I am not sure how we are going to win this war in Iraq. Maybe we will over a long period of time, but the war with Terrorists just seems like it will last forever. They have been fighting forever in the middle east and I am just wondering if anyone has any ideas on how this will ever end.
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#278920 - 11/23/04 06:43 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Anonymous
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I have ideas, but they aren't nice so I'll keep them to myself. I live in a region of the country that has the largest population of middle eastern people living outside of the mideast. I've said this from the beginning. This administration didn't and doesn't understand the mind set of these people. Their religion is too much a part of their lives and laws in ways that we can't understand. The fact the Shiites and Sunnis can't get along will never change. It's not like Western Europe or the U.S. where Protestants, Catholics, Jews, etc can get along even if we don't agree. And the way they treat women in the 21st century is unbelievable. Recently, they arrested a father here because his 13 year old was acting "too American" so he shackled her in a locked basement. Fortunately the girl had told non-muslim friends that if they didn't see her at school to call the police because she feared he would kill her. And in school if you do something against a muslim, the whole family seeks revenge on the poor non-muslim kid. Another example of how their religion affects their life is our hospital has to have the beds faceing Mecca for the muslim patients and they have to have different hospital gowns for muslim women (for modesty). We didn't do our homework before going into Iraq. We did good stratgic planning, and had good war plans, but we didn't understand their culture.
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#278921 - 11/23/04 06:51 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Anonymous
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I agree that it is unlikely that we can win the war in Iraq. The insurgents can fight when they want and blend in with the population the rest of the time, just like in Viet Nam.
The war on terror I am more optimistic about. Although terrorism has always been with us and will never go away completely, it is much easier for us to defend our own country than to try to pacify someone else's.
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#278922 - 11/23/04 06:54 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I agree that it is unlikely that we can win the war in Iraq. The insurgents can fight when they want and blend in with the population the rest of the time, just like in Viet Nam.
The war on terror I am more optimistic about. Although terrorism has always been with us and will never go away completely, it is much easier for us to defend our own country than to try to pacify someone else's.
I agree...guess "Mission Accomplished" was a little premature, huh? 
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#278923 - 11/23/04 07:26 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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We are Americans. We can do anything we put our mind to. We didn't lose Viet Nam because we were unable to win. We lost because we didn't have the political will to win. That is not yet a problem in Iraq. As long as we remain resolved to win, we will do so.
Stop listening to the NYT, and start listening to the people who are doing the job.
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#278927 - 11/23/04 08:01 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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If we had the political will for Vietnam, what would have been vicotry.
Freedom from communism for the South Vietnamese.
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political will alone is not enough to defeat a counter-insurgency.
I didn't say it was. But political will combined with military might is.
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This comes back to winning the hearts and minds, and a local insurgency has a huge advantage.
Do you really think the Iraqis prefer terror masters to a free Iraq?
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#278928 - 11/23/04 08:50 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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Quote:
Quote:
If we had the political will for Vietnam, what would have been vicotry.
Freedom from communism for the South Vietnamese.
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political will alone is not enough to defeat a counter-insurgency.
I didn't say it was. But political will combined with military might is.
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This comes back to winning the hearts and minds, and a local insurgency has a huge advantage.
Do you really think the Iraqis prefer terror masters to a free Iraq?
Right now, the Iraqis are going to prefer anyone who won't kill them, or protect them from being killed.
This is akin to an urban neighborhood taken over by gangs or mobsters. Rolling tanks in is not going to stop it, since the tanks will eventually leave, and the gangs or mobsters will still be there.
We have a complete military victory in Iraq. The Iraqi military forces wre routed, we occupy the country. There is an interim Iraqi government moving towards free elections.
Michael ,is this not a complete military victory.
Now, we rout the insurgents from Fallujah, and attacks occur in Mosul and Baghdad.
There is always someone else to hide. We need to give the Iraqis enough reasons to not let them hide. This is starting to happen in Sadr City, where the Shiite insurgents are calm and rebuilding has begun.
The Sunnis are more difficult, since they are giving up the superior position they held under Saddam. Until we can assure enough Sunnis that the new government will not be repressive and they will have an interest in it, the insurgency will continue to be a problem.
We must wedge the jihadists or islamo-facists from the local population.
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#278929 - 11/24/04 02:32 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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Quote:
We are Americans. We can do anything we put our mind to. We didn't lose Viet Nam because we were unable to win. We lost because we didn't have the political will to win. That is not yet a problem in Iraq. As long as we remain resolved to win, we will do so.
Stop listening to the NYT, and start listening to the people who are doing the job.
JM, this post was made strictly from what I have read and heard about and using my own mind, lol. And, I am making the observation that these people have fought amongst themselves for a thousand years and never seem to resolve anything, and I have major doubts that we can bring them peace when it doesn't seem like they are remotely interested in it. The theory of live and let live that is required for true peace is not even in their realm of thought. But, if God helps them, maybe their wills be change.
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#278930 - 11/24/04 02:46 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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I have major doubts that we can bring them peace when it doesn't seem like they are remotely interested in it.
Be careful you do not judge a race of people by some members of it who represent sheer evil. I have no doubt that the vast majority of Iraqis (and the vast majority of Arabs, generally) want freedom and peace.
The violence is being wrought by those opposed to both, desparate to prevent a free Iraq.
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#278931 - 11/24/04 04:58 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 952
Stockton, California
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My brothers(2) and brother-in-law have all served in Iraq. My older brother has been there for almost a year now so we get up to date information which is a far cry from what you hear or see on the news. He has been ambushed 2 times in one week - some people at my work made comments about how they think the military should pull out and come home. My brother says everytime they back off more terror wars begin. I miss him I believe in America - I believe we can stand together and get through anything.
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#278933 - 11/24/04 05:09 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Posts: 952
Stockton, California
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Thank you for your kindness - My brother that's currently serving in Iraq as mixed emotions. Mixed because he hates what he sees there, the lives they are forced to live - hates the fact that he has to fight soldiers that are just doing what he's doing - fighting for their own country, yet for entirely different causes. He sees women and children on the side of the road, some are giving him thumbs up and hugging him -while others are shooting at him..? He can't wait to come home and would not wish the things he has witnessed on anyone - yet he is proud of the fact that he is serving his country and fighting for what he feels is a worthy cause. While none of my relatives are for war perse' they are for fighting for what you believe in, fighting for what is right, and protecting the freedom of America. My brother feels strongly that we cannot pull the troops completely out - he has seen the affects of backing off - they are terroising their own people. At least with the military there he says there is some sense of order(only speaking for where he is at)...
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"For with God NOTHING shall be impossible."
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#278934 - 11/24/04 05:23 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Anonymous
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i know exactly how you feel. my girlfriend's brother was over there and described the exact same situation. he was with the marines. he is home now and will be medically discharged in january.
my brother will be going over soon. he isn't sure when but he knows that he is going. he is in the army, as an mp. he wants to go over and help his fellow soldiers but he hasn't really said how else he feels about it.
my girlfriend's brother said that iraq is one of the worst places to be. he came back 40 lbs underweight, skin poisoning from the sun and has the worst temper now because of the war.
it really hits home when its one of your own going over there.
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#278935 - 11/24/04 05:36 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 952
Stockton, California
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I agree - it's definitely personal when your loved ones are fighting over there. I feel everyone has a right to their opinion on whether they agree or disagree with what is happening with Iraq or the decisions made by our government, i just wish while they are making those opinions or assumptions they keep in mind that our loved ones are protecting that freedom to agree or disagree. My younger brother is going through a very hard time right now. His wife gave birth to a 1lb baby so he was not allowed to back to Iraq when his unit left for the second time. He feels that he's too priviledge to enjoy the luxerys while they are fighting - he is constantly depressed and his health is not well at all. All he can think about is Iraq, the things he saw, the things he heard, the things he had to do as military personnel. It just saddens me that someone so young(20) as been through so much already, and to the degree that it will affect him for the rest of his life. He has to attend counseling now. Thank god my old brother is coping much better...although I fear he'll come back numb.
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"For with God NOTHING shall be impossible."
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#278936 - 11/24/04 05:47 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Anonymous
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yup, my girlfriend's brother is going thru the same thing. he is very jumpy, constantly looking around and his temper goes thru the roof at the slightest thing. he is 21 now.
my brother is just 19. i can already see the changes that he has gone thru, just being in the military. it's a very surreal feeling knowing what he is walking into and what could happen to him.
you just have to try and treat it like any normal day.
you can't worry about stuff that hasn't even happened yet.
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#278937 - 11/24/04 05:53 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 952
Stockton, California
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Exactly - but easier said than done sometimes.
Well, my thoughts are with your brother and gfriends brother. Hope all goes well for them. I'll say a prayer for them.
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"For with God NOTHING shall be impossible."
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#278938 - 11/24/04 06:00 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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Anonymous
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Exactly - but easier said than done sometimes.
Well, my thoughts are with your brother and gfriends brother. Hope all goes well for them. I'll say a prayer for them.
same here, you too.
have a great holiday!
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#278939 - 11/24/04 07:36 PM
Re: Iraq and the Terror War
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God Bless them all, and may they come home safe and sound very soon. Hope you have a good Thanksgiving.
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