As we continue to grapple with the wide variety of identification documents presented by non-U.S. persons, we also wonder if we aren't asking for too much in certain cases. Is it unreasonable to require that a permanent resident alien also present a passport and visa? Or would they not likely keep a current passport? Has anyone else seen authorized employment cards being issued to minors? It always seems so cut and dry at seminars to just ask for the passport, visa, and I-94 form. Why is reality so different?

Wouldn't a permanent resident alien be considered a US person and not a non-US person? In any event, I would consider a valid Green Card to be sufficient, without a passport as well. The customer should also have a SS# or ITIN.

Does a visa alone qualify for the identification number for the minumum required identification information to be obtained and recorded for CIP? I am not sure if it falls into the definition of a government issued document evidencing nationality or residence and bears a photograph or similar safeguard. Any opinions would be aprpeciated.

It would all depend on what your individual Bank policy states as acceptable ID.
I don't think a Visa alone would qualify.
Isn't a non US person a non-citizen? DevsFan has me questioning that, because in that case a Resident Alien card would be acceptable, and that person may not have a valid passport to show as ID as a Resident Alien can be in the US for many years without obtaining citizenship and may have the passport from their home country expire.
I thought a US person was a US citizen only??

IRS regulations consider a resident alien to be a U.S. Person. (See the W-9) However, the CIP regulations (your concern at present) only consider U.S. citizens to be U.S. Persons.

If a person is a resident alien with a green card, that alone could be acceptable as identification. If your CIP requires he also have a passport and visa there's some overkill in your program.

Here's a prior thread regarding the visa's role in establishing identity.

Thank you Sir...
Isn't overkill just about everywhere in CIP these days ??

Thank you MagicCity and Ken Pegasus for your responses.

I've been looking for a hard and fast rule about who may have an ITIN and who will have a SSN. I thought I had one but now I'm confused again. I thought I understood Ken to say (at a recent State Banker's update school) that ALL who have an ITIN are NRAs and all US Persons/Citizens will have a SSN. What number should one have that is here on a Work Visa? Could it be either?

I encourage bankers not to make any attempt to unravel the rules for who is eligible to obtain what number. All you need to know is whether they do have a number and then ask the approprite questions as indicated by a "yes" or "no" answser regarding their status.

It's correct to say that ITINs are only given to NRAs. It's also correct to say that SSNs may be held by U.S. citizens, resident aliens, and non resident aliens as well. Thus, the fact they have an SSN does not indicate their status.

Regarding the minimum identifying information that must be obtained for a non-US person without a TIN...it was my interpretation that the ID number used must be from a government form of ID that evidences nationality or residence...residence meaning (in my opinion) the permanent (foreign) residence, not US "residence." However, I am getting contrary interpretation by others, stating that a state issued driver license or non-driver ID number satisfies this requirement as this will show the residence, for example NY. This could be right, as now I am not sure.

Any opinion or help would be appreciated. THANKS!!!!

bump

Don't forget that the government complicated the definitions for CIP. Usually a resident alien is a US person, but not for CIP. So the person's permanent home could very well be in the US and they have a US driver's license, SSN, etc. but they are a non-US person for CIP purposes.

A non-resident alien might also have a US drivers license, an address while they are working here and possibly a work SSN or ITIN but give you a foreign passport.

The BSA Regs say:
"(ii) For a non-U.S. person, one or more of the following: a taxpayer identification number; passport number and country of issuance; alien identification card number; or number and country of issuance of any other government-issued document evidencing nationality or residence and bearing a photograph or similar safeguard. "

If they are a resident alien, for example, with a US photo drivers license issued by their state of permanent residence, that would be acceptable as one form of ID. They live in the US!

I agree with Kaybee. If the non-US person is a resident of the US, then a state issued DL should be fine - it meets the requirements.

It the non-US person is not a resident of the US, even though they may have a US address and a state issued DL, they would still need to show a document evidencing their nationality or true residency.

Thank you KayBee and Great Blue...

So if I am reading this right, can I assume if the customer cerifies that they are a non-resident alien by signing a W-8, then we should obtain some ID that evidences nationality or permanent (foreign) residence, not US residence?

I know the IRS and BSA define non-US person differently, and I am trying to determine a "rule" to use when reviewing CIP data on our customers.

That's how I would handle it. It they gave me a W-8, they've just certified that they are not a resident of the U.S., so they need to give ID that indicates their actual residency (or nationality).

Thanks again.

Isn't a W-8 just for interest bearing accounts?

Yes, I beleive you would only need to obtain a W-8 for a non-resident alien when opening an interest bearing account. I beleive it is required for IRS purposes only and not for BSA/CIP purposes.

IRS - US person is a US person or entity or US resident alien.

BSA - US person is a US citizen or US entity.

However, if I see a customer with a W-8 for IRS purposes, then I can probably reasonably assume that the person is a non-US person for BSA purposes (not a US citizen or US entity). Does anyone agree or disagree?

Absolutely. No "US person" using the CIP definition would have reason to file a W-8.

Thank you again. That was my thought all along and it is great to have some corroboration.

Another question...I am confused...PATRIOT Act says for a non-US Person without a TIN you can use the alien identification card number as the minimum identity information in place of a tax number.

When they say "alien identification card number", is that the permanent resident card (I-551, otherwise known as "green card")? If yes, does that mean they do not have to pay taxes on interest? Or should these people apply for a tax number (ITIN) and the bank should withhold until they get one?

Does "alien identification card" include any other types (other than permanent resident card), such as employment authorization card or border crosser card?

Another question...I am confused...PATRIOT Act says for a non-US Person without a TIN you can use the alien identification card number as the minimum identity information in place of a tax number.

When they say "alien identification card number", is that the permanent resident card (I-551, otherwise known as "green card")? If yes, does that mean they do not have to pay taxes on interest? Or should these people apply for a tax number (ITIN) and the bank should withhold until they get one?

Does "alien identification card" include any other types (other than permanent resident card), such as employment authorization card or border crosser card?

Anyone???