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#351850 - 04/26/05 08:51 PM Need CTR guidance
Buzzkill Offline
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New to industry. Need info relating to aceptablility/legality of informing customers about CTR requirements and structuring guidelines. I've heard that the BSA prohibits from advising customers about the CTR. Is this true???

Are there exceptions?
Last edited by John Burnett; 04/27/05 08:51 PM.
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#351851 - 04/26/05 09:30 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Fork Ate Spoon Offline
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CTR's or SAR's?? CTR's are okay, it's better if they ask about a CTR or filing guidlines to maybe give them a pamphlet they can read detailing them. But as for SAR's you can not mention or discuss that with any customer. It's a secret, shhhhhhhhhhh.
Last edited by John Burnett; 04/27/05 08:52 PM.
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#351852 - 04/26/05 09:58 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
BrendaC Offline
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It is against the law for someone to "assist" in structuring. This can be tricky. How much information do you need to provide before you cross over from "explaining the rules" to "assisting in structuring". To avoid this pitfall, we train our branch employees to avoid discussing the rules and to provide a brochure explaining CTRs and monetary instrument record keeping rules to the customer. Further questions are referred to a manager to directly to the BSA officer.
Last edited by John Burnett; 04/27/05 08:52 PM.
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#351853 - 04/26/05 11:52 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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As Dig said, "SARs or CTRs?" If it's the latter, search the BSA forum using "Facts You Should Know." It's a vendor produced publication that banks often give customers asking CTR related questions. There have been a number of prior threads.

Discussing SARs with customers is not a good idea.
Last edited by John Burnett; 04/27/05 08:53 PM.
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#351854 - 04/27/05 06:36 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Anonymous
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Sorry all, I meant CTR's. Typo in my title. [Ed. Note: Titles corrected in the string -- JSB]

AML unit @ a large bank, and many of us are confused as to just how much we can tell a customer about the CTR limits to ensure compliance.

We typically explain the law to them, and attempt to get them to comply in the future. Seems to us like shooting ourselves in the foot. Should we even be asking about the customer's source of funds and manner of credits/debits?

How can there be a law, that you can break, but you can't be told about it? That's like getting a ticket for speeding, but no speed limit signs are posted.
Last edited by John Burnett; 04/27/05 08:54 PM.
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#351855 - 04/27/05 07:00 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Fork Ate Spoon Offline
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They can be told about it, they can know about it, just don't tell them how to or assist them in breaking this law. That's why I mentioned handing them a pamphlet so they can read for themselves and you don't shoot yourself in the foot for saying something that you shouldn't have or get the questions from customers like "So if I deposit $9,900.00 a day you all won't file a report right???".

CTR's are no big secret and I don't see a problem with asking where the source of funds derived from. We do it, it's good for BSA purposes. Account testing and what not.
Last edited by John Burnett; 04/27/05 08:54 PM.
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#351856 - 04/27/05 07:28 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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As Dig and Brenda have indicated, we live in a country where people are entitled to know what the law is. You could discuss the legal requirements for CTR filing with a customer ad nauseum without violating the law. The problem is that there are crimes called "structuring" and "assisting in structuring." If your conversation with the customer became detailed and included examples like the one Dig provided or an explanation of how deposits made at 1:45 and 3:15 on the same day would not be aggregated due to your cut off time it would be pretty easy to accuse your employee of "assisting in structuring."

The risk is not hypothetical. In the past, Treasury has "shopped" banks posing as a customer or a potential customer and asked such questions. If you simply hand the customer the booklet and refuse to discuss bank procedures there is no question about what you said or didn't say.

If you search as I suggested earlier, you will find most of this discussion in prior threads.
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#351857 - 04/28/05 12:17 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Anonymous
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Okay, I understand about asking, matter of factly, about the funds at the time of the transaction, IF you happen to be in a position to do so.

But.......What do you think about contacting the customer, after-the-fact, and then questioning the source of funds? Should the banks be responsible for this, or isn't that Law Enforcement's role? Aren't we just supposed to report the activity?

I believe that it may be crossing a dangerous legal line to question private persons, without authority, as to the source of their funds, especially AFTER THE FACT.

Opinions welcome.

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#351858 - 04/28/05 01:15 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Fork Ate Spoon Offline
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Have the accounts officer do it if you are really that interested in finding out the source of funds. I'd rather find out what the funds are for or from rather then just file a SAR. If I don't have to file one I won't. The officer doesn't have to be blunt about it. Work around the question. If they don't want to tell you then you can't force it out of them, but most are willing to tell because they have nothing to hide. Our Tellers ask what the currency will be used for or came from whenever a deposit/withdrawal over $5,000.00 is made and keep it on a log. Some tell some don't.

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#351859 - 04/28/05 03:42 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Anonymous
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Dig, nice in theory. Most personal account holders do not have account officer to go to. We R A back-office unit that does follow-up after-the-fact (sometimes more than 90 days later). We actually call the customer and attempt to verify the source of funds (or destination of structured out vs in).

We are not teller unit, and have no personal, face-to-face contact w/ our customers.

Another question: How long, after becoming aware of a reportable event, is the LEGAL requirement to SAR or not SAR?

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#351860 - 04/28/05 03:59 PM Re: Need CTR guidance
Fork Ate Spoon Offline
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Fork Ate Spoon
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30 days

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