Just wanted to make sure I was correct - We have an Attorney account (sometimes they are the most difficult to deal with), actually it is a qualified intermediary account. Right now there is no SSN on the attorney, who is the only owner/signer of the account. We have requested the SSN of the attorney and he is unwilling to give it and says that it is not really his account, it is his clients, of which we do have the SSN. He said that if our auditors had a problem with it, they could call him directly. Am I not correct in saying that since he is the owner/signer of the account, then he is the one required to give his SSN?

I don't know what a qualified intermediary account is, but it sounds as if the attorney is holding the funds on behalf of another party? If so, then the other party is most likely your customer, because the funds actually belong to them. However, you could make a case that since the attorney has control and authority over the account that you also need his SSN or TIN for the law firm. I would look to your CIP first (everyone knows that by now, right?). Otherwise, I would CIP the party that has supplied the funds.

I guess I might be a little confused about this.....I am under the impression that the attorney is our customer.....he is the one who opened the account, which falls under the definition of the final rule.

I agree- the beneficiaries of the account are not your customers by the CIP definition of 'customer', but the attorney is, as he is the person who is opening and controlling the account and the beneficiaries have taken no part in that decision.

Below are links to similar threads relating to escrow accounts and iolta accounts:
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Me too

Is there a law in your state concerning attorney accounts? Kentucky has one, and all client accounts are set up with a state tax ID number.

if an account doen't comply with the CIP big 4 within 60 days of opening we close it

done deal

I don't agree or disagree. I'm simply saying that based on the informaiton in the post, I can't tell whether the attorney is the account owner or simply an agent acting on behalf of another party. If the attorney is simply an agent, then the other party is the account owner and subject to CIP. The money is coming from somewhere. It's mostly likely not the attorney's money.

Same argument: Can tell if its his own account, on behalf of someone else, IOLTA Account, etc. etc...

Based on Anon's original post I'd say "no social, no account".

We've had this come up several times, and several times we've close the account. Thank you very much, have a nice day, good luck getting around this with your new bank.

Our policy states that you CIP everyone associated with the account - it makes life easy.
No need to wonder who is the true owner or beneficiary of the monies!

Are you sure this is not an Attorney Trust Account?

an Attorney Trust Account is a special bank account, usually a checking account, into which must be placed all funds which are entrusted to the attorney's care while the attorney is acting in a legal representative capacity on behalf of a client.

An attorney trust account should not be used for funds which an attorney receives while acting in any special fiduciary capacity, such as executor, guardian, receiver or trustee; these funds are to be placed into separate fiduciary accounts.

ATA's must be maintained in a financial institution A financial institution is defined as being a national or state chartered bank; a savings bank; savings and loan association; or a credit union.

The account must include the prominent designation, "Attorney Trust Account", and the checks and deposit slips for the account must be imprinted with that title.

Withdrawals from an attorney trust account must be made to named payees, and not to cash.

An attorney may deposit a minimal amount of personal funds into the attorney trust account to pay service charges and other fees incurred in connection with the account.

Attorney trust accounts may be interest-bearing, but the attorney may never be the recipient of interest earned on the portion of funds belonging to clients or other persons being held in the trust account. All interest or other income earned on an attorney trust account belongs to the clients or persons whose money generated the interest, or to the "IOLTA Fund".

Each Sate is different so check to see how these accounts are handled in your state.

You could also place a call to your State Bar Association and explain the issue and see if they can intervene for you. The attorney might be playing fast and loose with some client's money.

Attorneys love to give banks a hard time. Simply send a letter stating that in order to comply with your bank's Customer Identification Procedure, a SSN or EIN is required. Give him 10 days to provide the number. If you don't receive it, close the account. He will undoubtedly be asked for this information when he tries to open an account at the next bank. Stick to your guns!

Quote:

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it is a qualified intermediary account

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If that's correct, this is not an IOLTA or client trust fund account. It's an account used to facilitate a IRC Section 1031 exchange and has nothing to do with the attorney client relationship; any third party can serve as a qualified intermediary.

Your instincts and JacFSB sent you in the right direction; the attorney is acting as an escrow agent and is the "customer" for CIP purposes. Regardless of the specifics of your bank's CIP, you must obtain his name, address, DOB and identifying number.

P.S. That thing about having the auditors call him directly if they have any problem with it started my day with a chuckle. It might be more helpful to them if they called someone willing to learn a little rather than someone who assumes he knows it all.

Anyone have a good resource that I can learn more about Qualified Intermediaries?