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#1021894 - 08/18/08 01:47 PM Obama and Clearance Thomas
Pale Rider Offline
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8/18 Editorial from the WSJ Online


Barack Obama likes to portray himself as a centrist politician who wants to unite the country, but occasionally his postpartisan mask slips. That was the case at Saturday night's Saddleback Church forum, when Mr. Obama chose to demean Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

Pastor Rick Warren asked each Presidential candidate which Justices he would not have nominated. Mr. McCain said, "with all due respect" the four most liberal sitting Justices because of his different judicial philosophy.


Mr. Obama took a lower road, replying first that "that's a good one," and then adding that "I would not have nominated Clarence Thomas. I don't think that he, I don't think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation. Setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretation of a lot of the Constitution." The Democrat added that he also wouldn't have appointed Antonin Scalia, and perhaps not John Roberts, though he assured the audience that at least they were smart enough for the job.

So let's see. By the time he was nominated, Clarence Thomas had worked in the Missouri Attorney General's office, served as an Assistant Secretary of Education, run the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and sat for a year on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the nation's second most prominent court. Since his "elevation" to the High Court in 1991, he has also shown himself to be a principled and scholarly jurist.

Meanwhile, as he bids to be America's Commander in Chief, Mr. Obama isn't yet four years out of the Illinois state Senate, has never held a hearing of note of his U.S. Senate subcommittee, and had an unremarkable record as both a "community organizer" and law school lecturer. Justice Thomas's judicial credentials compare favorably to Mr. Obama's Presidential résumé by any measure. And when it comes to rising from difficult circumstances, Justice Thomas's rural Georgian upbringing makes Mr. Obama's story look like easy street.

Even more troubling is what the Illinois Democrat's answer betrays about his political habits of mind. Asked a question he didn't expect at a rare unscripted event, the rookie candidate didn't merely say he disagreed with Justice Thomas. Instead, he instinctively reverted to the leftwing cliché that the Court's black conservative isn't up to the job while his white conservative colleagues are.

So much for civility in politics and bringing people together. And no wonder Mr. Obama's advisers have refused invitations for more such open forums, preferring to keep him in front of a teleprompter, where he won't let slip what he really believes.
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#1021897 - 08/18/08 01:50 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
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And Obama's buffonism continues.
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#1021903 - 08/18/08 01:57 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas TheManofSteel
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what is "buffonism" and how/why does it apply here?

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#1021912 - 08/18/08 02:04 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Hated By Some
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ill-educated and experienced would seem a good fit, no?
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#1021918 - 08/18/08 02:13 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
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i thought that he was comparing him to the hero of the last world cup gianluigi buffon.

where do you get ill-educated from, huge? also, he was a jurist for one year based on the facts of the editorial.

seriously, this editorial is ridiculous, pale. mccain said "with all due respect" but obama took the "low road" for disagreeing on the same basis. classic.

did you know that c thomas has never made a comment during oral arguments in front of scotus?

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#1021922 - 08/18/08 02:16 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Hated By Some
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
and Obama never made a comment that his handlers didn't feel the need to further clarify...
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#1021924 - 08/18/08 02:18 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas HappyGilmore
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clarifying because spin-doctors take comments out of context vs hearing 100s of cases on the scotus bench and never once uttering a peep.

we get it, you don't like obama. thanks.

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#1021931 - 08/18/08 02:33 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Hated By Some
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http://www4.law.cornell.edu/supct/author.php?thomas

here are Justice Thomas' opinions zilla

who the heck remembers anything memorable said in oral questions to lawyers?

the only ridiculousness is your ilk's continued attacks on Justice Thomas
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#1021939 - 08/18/08 02:37 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
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what does memorable have to do with my point? oral arguments are about the opinion writing process.

i don't continually attack thomas, either. i really only have a problem with this vapid editorial.

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#1021942 - 08/18/08 02:40 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Hated By Some
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humorous conversation that hopefully will never take place:



Obama: “My point is, last year I got on TV and said I wouldn’t have appointed you to the Supreme Court, okay?” “I said I didn’t think you were a strong enough jurist or a legal thinker at the time. I want you to know — ”

“You said I wasn’t a strong enough legal thinker?”

“Yeah, but I want you to know I was just going through the motions,” said President Obama. “You got to play the D.C. game if you want to get ahead, right?”

“Mr. President, I can assure you, I have been called much much worse than an inadequate legal thinker,” said Justice Thomas. “Perhaps now we can both get back to work — ”

“You want to compare war wounds, let’s throw down,” said President Obama.

“War wounds?”

“I’ve been called un-American because I didn’t wear a stupid flag pin, and then when I did wear it, they said I was caving in to Fox news,” said President Obama. “They said I had no real accomplishments in the Senate, other than claiming to be on a subcommittee I didn’t sit on.” He voice rose as he glided around the Oval Office, hands waving. “That Barry Obama, he took his children to a church led by a racist demagogue for twenty years. He got a sweetheart land deal from a political fixer who wasn’t even a felon at the time.” His voice echoed now, the cadence steady. “They said I was a media construct, as desperately in need of a teleprompter as any anchorman. That Barry Obama, he’s untested, he’s a lightweight, he’s totally unprepared to deal with the geopolitical threats to the nation. Me.” He pounded his chest, glared at Justice Thomas. “They said that about me. Did they ever say any of those things about you?”
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#1021945 - 08/18/08 02:42 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
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Pale... let go, this isn't good for your angina.
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#1021952 - 08/18/08 02:45 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
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pale, you should disable your links to the blogs and learn to think for yourself for a change.

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#1021953 - 08/18/08 02:46 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
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Pale: I'd have more respect for your opinions on this topic if you could only properly spell "Clarence Thomas", especially in the topic line.

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#1021954 - 08/18/08 02:46 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Songbird
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ooooooooooooo, buuuuuurn!!!!
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#1021956 - 08/18/08 02:50 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas kitten
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Songbird,
If you have an opinion, please by all means share it as we are all interested in new perspectives, but correcting spelling on the internet is weak.
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#1021992 - 08/18/08 03:22 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas MB Guy
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Originally Posted By: World President
Songbird,
If you have an opinion, please by all means share it as we are all interested in new perspectives, but correcting spelling on the internet is weak.


Its alot stronger then his arguments (I got one in there for you Ron).
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#1022018 - 08/18/08 03:45 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Sound Tactic
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wait a minute, I thought the One had put the Justice on clearance!
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#1022024 - 08/18/08 03:49 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
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A former law clerk for Clarence Thomas is leading the pack of critics saying Barack Obama’s comments about the Supreme Court justice reveal the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee’s ignorance and misunderstanding of the Constitution.

The weekend event at the 22,000-member Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., was meant to give both candidates a chance to address questions of importance to the large evangelical community. Church Pastor Rick Warren, known for his bestselling book “The Purpose-Driven Life,” posed the series of questions to each candidate, which were aimed at getting to their personalities, foibles and leadership styles.

During the symposium, Obama said he would not have nominated Thomas to the bench because “I don’t think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation. Setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretation of a lot of the Constitution.”

Obama then added that he would not have nominated Justice Antonin Scalia because they disagree, not because of any intellectual deficiencies.

Wendy E. Long, currently counsel to the The Judicial Confirmation Network, called Obama’s responses about the bench “ludicrous.” Long released a statement saying the remarks demonstrate Obama contradicts himself in his “own alleged criteria” for high court nominees.

”Obama started to say that Justice Thomas didn’t have enough ‘experience’ for the Supreme Court. In mid-sentence, when Obama realized that he himself has far less experience for the presidency than Justice Thomas had for the court in 1991, he shifted and said Justice Thomas ‘was not a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time,’” said Long, a former Senate aide whose conservative group works to get “highly qualified” justices confirmed to the bench.

“This is all reminiscent of (Senate Majority Leader) Harry Reid’s comment several years ago that Justice Thomas was ‘an embarrassment to the court’ and that his opinions ‘were poorly written’. Reid was exposed as the ignoramus then, and the Congressional Black Caucus asked him to stop using ‘stereotypes and caricatures,’” she continued.

Reid is among several critics who have called Thomas’ written opinions lightweight and suggested that he wants to abandon the principle of “stare decisis” — standing by precedent — and reinvent the wheel with every case.

The topic of several biographies, Thomas, who was confirmed to the court by a 52-48 margin, has also been described as disinterested because he does not ask questions during oral presentations before the court. The justice has defended himself against the criticism, it as an effort to demonstrate respect for the attorneys presenting their cases.

Long said Thomas has repeatedly proven critics wrong about his intellectual capacity and repeats previous defenses that much of the criticism of Thomas is because he is a black conservative.

“Apparently, Obama can do no better than to recycle discredited statements of Harry Reid when it comes to Justice Thomas. Like other liberal elites, Obama cannot stand it when a black man strays from the ideological plantation and refuses to implement liberal policies through the courts. But Obama will never point out any intellectual deficiencies in Justice Thomas’s work, because he can’t. Justice Thomas’s opinions consistently reveal faithfulness to the Constitution, judicial modesty and deference to the will of the people in our representative democracy. That is opposed to everything that Obama and the liberals are trying to do in grabbing power from the people and giving it to the courts,” she said.

Long did not offer comment to McCain’s response to the same question in which he said, “with all due respect,” he would not have nominated Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and John Paul Stevens.

“Well, I think that the president of the United States has incredible responsibility in nominating people to the United States Supreme Court. They are lifetime positions, as well as the federal bench. There will be two or maybe three vacancies. This nomination should be based on the criteria of proven record, of strictly adhering to the Constitution of the United States of America and not legislating from the bench. Some of the worst damage has been done by legislating from the bench,” McCain said.

Left off both candidates’ lists were the nominal moderate in the court, Justice Anthony Kennedy, and the newest Justice on the court Samuel Alito.

The nomination of justices to the bench is one of the most important criteria for conservatives in the coming election, and several leaders on the right have said they will swallow their distaste for McCain’s record on other matters andvote for him because they know he will nominate conservative justices.

The Wall Street Journal editorial page also took jabs at Obama’s answer, noting both his and Thomas’ career at the time they reached the highest office of their ambitions. The editorial noted that Obama’s response may have been inartful.

“Even more troubling is what the Illinois Democrat’s answer betrays about his political habits of mind. Asked a question he didn’t expect at a rare unscripted event, the rookie candidate didn’t merely say he disagreed with Justice Thomas. Instead, he instinctively reverted to the leftwing cliché that the Court’s black conservative isn’t up to the job while his white conservative colleagues are,” the editorial board wrote.

Long warned that Obama’s response reveals the kind of judges Obama would appoint.

“Obama wants justices who will do his bidding, who will implement the preferred policies of the liberal establishment – not Justices like Thomas, Scalia, Roberts and Alito, who understand that the role of a judge is not to legislate from the bench,” she said.

She also slammed the candidate for saying that he would take the counsel from his wife and grandmother as well as former Sen. Sam Nunn and Sens. Dick Lugar, Ted Kennedy and Tom Coburn.

“Obama’s answer about the three wisest people in his life, upon whom he would rely heavily in his administration, also sheds light on the way he would choose Supreme Court Justices. Obama said he would consult his grandmother, his wife, and Ted Kennedy. This is unlikely to yield the highest quality judicial nominees who understand the Constitution and the role of judges in our constitutional democracy,” Long said.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/18/...ddleback-forum/
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#1022143 - 08/18/08 05:35 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas kms
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As I understand it, both candidates gave bad answers to a question. This debate/thread is an attempt to show which bad answer is worse?

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#1022149 - 08/18/08 05:40 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Hrothgar Geiger
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I only saw bits and pieces of this interview. I'm interested in finding out more. Seriously asking, in the sake of fairness, AML, can you link what was considered McCain's bad answer?

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#1022167 - 08/18/08 05:56 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Truffle Royale
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#1022174 - 08/18/08 06:02 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Hated By Some
kms Offline
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i have to say that I dont think that debate made your boy look very good.IMO
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#1022176 - 08/18/08 06:04 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas kms
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gee, what a shocker...

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#1022183 - 08/18/08 06:09 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Hated By Some
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and which of McCain's answers were bad?

I am puzzled yahoo didn't touch the One's answer about "evil" in the world

care to post the transcript on that one by both candidates?
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#1022189 - 08/18/08 06:12 PM Re: Obama and Clearance Thomas Pale Rider
kms Offline
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that is the transcripts above I thought, if not then I don't have enough info to base my decision on.
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