double entendre?

OK, blame the cold medicine but I can see where that may not have been the most coherent post.

Let's not play selective edit cut and paste, OK? We all know that random splicing allows anyone to quote someone else as saying whatever they wanted them to.

http://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/repcard3e.pdf

According to this UNICEF report, the U.S. has the highest teenage pregnancy rate among rich nations. Look at the nations in this report with much lower rates of teenage pregnancy -- hardly countries the right would see as espousing moral and family values.

I stand by my previous post. Abstinence-only education does not work. It will not reduce the number of teenage pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies or abortions. It is a fraud. We need to teach responsible sexual behavior, which includes mate selection, timing, protection, and the moral and psychological issues that come with sexual behavior. Ideally sexual education would come in the home, but our inner cities are littered with examples of that not happening, too.

Just because kids have something drilled into their heads doesn't mean they'll heed it. I was raised ultra-conservative Southern Baptist and probably could tell stories that would make a sailor blush.

Now, THIS is a well-articulated post! And (hold onto your hat, EM) I agree. If sex were not so taboo in this country we'd lose a lot of the fascination with it.

I haven't personally researched this, but at one point I worked with a local non-profit that had a program with the mission of reducing teen pregnancy. They turned down a huge amount of federal money for abstinence-only education because all the research they could find, said that when it was implemented teen pregnancy rates usually INCREASED. They didn't see any point in running a better-funded but less successful program. There was alot at stake for them, so I assume that they researched pretty thoroughly.

RR Becca, I agree with your statement of "government need to butt out of personal lives."

I think sex ed needs to be taught in schools because my parents didn't take the initiative to teach us. Sure, I could get the basic knowledge by walking down the road to watch Willie's cows have at it. But, that doesn't necessarily apply directly to human sexuality. Adding abstinance as an alternative sounds okay. Morals need to be taught at home.

i know of a one sample case study that confirms these findings as well.

Is that why you're...















































More liberal in your thinking?

So beyond the whole I-support-abstinence-only-teaching-in-the-schools-and-morals-at-home-even-though-it-did-not-work-this-time-in-my-home, (and for the record, I support heavy abstinence teaching in the schools, with a dose of common sense and self protection, as we can see here, the daughter didn't get all the messages all that clearly in the home), but beyond all of this, how wise it is that the family and the party appear all gung-ho about two 17/18 year olds rushing into marriage as part of the solution to this situation??

This isn't 1956 anymore... and oviously they have proven that they cannot exercise good judgement thus far, so why open this up to more problems by a marriage so soon??? Why not let them continue growing up a bit, going to school, still to get to know and love each other, and if this happens, and they still want to be together in 2 or 4 years, then so be it. But why risk compounding the mess by rushing a teenage marriage????

Jay, I agree with your thinking. The odds are heavily stacked against this marriage succeeding, but it is their choice. I hope it works out for them.

Well, at least we've moved beyond sending pregnant teens to special schools for nine months.

Honestly, I've been too busy renovating the new house and getting moved in to pay much attention to what's going on with the campaign and what the talking heads are saying about Palin or this whole situation.

I am NOT ok with the media trotting out the mistakes of a nearly-adult child as political ammunition against a parent. Short of slapping chastity belts on them, all a parent can do is teach the kid and hope they listen. After that the choice is theirs. (FWIW, I agree with sex ed in schools with BOTH safety and abstinance taught as choices, along with common sense. Remember common sense? What happened to that?) I also don't think rushing the teenage parents into a doomed marriage is OK - but again...that choice is up to the family. The media (and the political circus) should butt out.

The National Abstinence Education Association (NAEA) released a new survey from Zogby International showing that when parents become aware of what abstinence education vs. comprehensive sex education actually teaches, support for abstinence programs jumps from 40% to 60%, while support for comprehensive programs drops from 50% to 30%. This sharp increase in support of abstinence education is seen across all political and economic groups.

“These results confirm broad-based support for abstinence education, including teaching teens about developing healthy relationships and increasing self worth and self control,” said Valerie Huber, executive director of the NAEA

The survey also showed overwhelming parental support for how abstinence programs permit an age appropriate discussion of contraception within the context of promoting abstinence as the healthiest choice. In line with the abstinence education approach, most parents said they want their children to be taught the limitations of condoms in providing complete protection against specific STDs and to learn how often condoms fail in preventing pregnancy based upon typical use. The majority of parents reject the so-called “comprehensive” sex education approach, which focuses on promoting and demonstrating contraceptive use. Sixty-six percent of parents think that the importance of the “wait to have sex” message ends up being lost when programs demonstrate and encourage the use of contraception.

“Across the board, parents are the biggest champions of abstinence education in their communities,” said Bruce Cook, President and CEO of Choosing the Best. Choosing the Best is a leading provider of abstinence education curricula and training, serving school districts nationwide. “They know the abstinence message is best for their child’s health and future and are very uncomfortable with comprehensive programs, which suggest that it’s ok for kids to go ahead and have sex, as long as they use a condom.”

Key Facts from the Survey
59% of parents said more funding should go to abstinence education; 22% said more should go to comprehensive sex education.
83% of parents think it is important for their child to wait until they are married to have sex.
78% of parents think sex education classes in public schools should place more emphasis on promoting abstinence than on condom and other contraceptive use.
93% of parents agree sex education should include a discussion about the limitations of condoms in preventing specific STDs.
“This poll confirms that abstinence education is the preferred approach for the sex education of youth in America,” said Valerie Huber. Zogby International conducted a telephone survey of 1002 parents of children ages 10-16. The margin of error was +/- 3.2 percentage points. Margins of error are higher in sub-groups.

Access the entire survey from Zogby International at http://www.abstinenceassociation.org.

I wonder how many of these parents waited until marriage.

GAO Report on Efforts to Assess the Effectiveness of Abstinence Only Education

This is partly a function of our celebrity-obsessed culture. We feel we have a right to know everything about everyone in the public spotlight. At the same time, Palin has clearly been put on the ticket because she appeals to moral/social conservatives, and one of positions supported by that group is abstinence-only education in schools. That Palin's teenage daughter is now pregnant in spite of such teachings in her home is naturally going to be fodder for those on the other end of that argument.

the other side of this coin is the gop trotting out palin as a human shield against criticism yet still able to foward the agenda that she represents.

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i keep seeing the term "choice" thrown around an awful lot in this thread with respect to moral/ethical issues. what a curious development...[/muahaha]

"I wonder how many of these parents waited until marriage"


This why my ex husband and I are teaching our sons morals, they are getting sex education, but do I honestly think that in this day and age they are going to wait until they married to have sex? No way that is why along with keeping an open communication with them we are also going to help them protect themselves.

yet another strawman

Why would an abstinence only program even include the talk of condoms?

This indicates to me that most rational parents realize that no matter how much we promote abstinence to our youth, they also realize that most will have sexual contact prior to marriage, and a comphrensive program is needed.

An abstinence only program in the schools IMO, will only be effective is the flip side of the discussion (i.e. unwanted pregnancy, condom/bc use, staying healthy, vd, love v lust, etc) is taught in the the privacy of the home. If a parent is unwillingly to talk about the realities of life with their children, beyond, just don't do it, then we will continue to see the high level of unwanted teen pregnancies that we do not want to see, and do more harm than good to society.

She probably got the messages...she just happened to get caught!

But for the Grace of God go I....

Any of these issues could happen to "ours"

No matter if we teach our kids at home or if they are taught by school, family, friends... whatever, it all comes down to a choice (most of the time...there are exceptions to that I know). But in cases such as this it was the young girls choice. I have taught conservative moral issues to my kid all her life, but it will come down to HER choice...not mine! I sure hope that others will not put all this "blame" on me IF she chooses to go against her upbringing.

you don't think that there is truth here? you are too smart to be this naive, rainier.