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#1053152 - 09/29/08 08:30 PM Re: House rejects bailout Princess Romeo
Blade Scrapper Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bonnie M
From a historical view, what stands out to me are the accounts of how much "some Republicans"* hated FDR, and as soon as they could, they started to dismantle all aspects of his "New Deal".

I am not an expert on this subject, but I believe the main items left from the "New Deal" were FDIC, Social Security, and Glass-Steagall, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac.

Glass-Steagall fell in 1999. Significant discussions were taking place on "privitizing" Social Security, and one has to wonder if FDIC was the last on the list.

And all those who were hoping for a repeal of transaction limits on time deposits? I don't think Congress will touch that topic with a 10 foot pool for at least the next 5 to 10 years.

*Republicans, social conservaties, free-market advocates are all being lumped in here, but I'm also saying that not all such folks were in agreement.
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#1053167 - 09/29/08 08:39 PM Re: House rejects bailout Blade Scrapper
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This is not a bad thing... I am only dissapointed because my congressman voted for the measure.

This whole mess is a pig in a snake, and simply needs time to work it out through the system. Granted it may take a few years, but is what needs to happen.

Let a few of the big boys fall, let a few more take the lumps from the bets they made, and allow several new companies/banks and such arise from the ashes better, leaner and more innovative than ever before.
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#1053173 - 09/29/08 08:43 PM Re: House rejects bailout FBH
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Originally Posted By: FBH
Originally Posted By: straw
You mean like the Depression was a win. That's what happened the last time we faced a crisis of this proportion and did nothing.


Didn't we become the most powerful nation in the world after the Depression?

It's a market adjustment, and the pigs are getting slaughtered. Better organizations will rise from the fallen.

Oh I forgot, I was talking about how things work in a capitalist democracy...

Bring on the liquidity, comrade Bernanke!!!


Well, I guess all we need is another world war and our economy will hum along again, since that is what it took to get us out of the depression and Europe's destruction enables our economy to become the backbone for the global economy. Hope that is not how this play's out, but I would be wary of cheering this potentially pyrrhic victory.

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#1053182 - 09/29/08 08:51 PM Re: House rejects bailout HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By: Happy Gilmore

MORANS! Our House of Representatives is packed with absolute MORANS! None of these people should leave Washington unless a close relative is dying or injured! Anyone who leaves without a good reason before they do something should be impeached! MORANS!

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#1053183 - 09/29/08 08:51 PM Re: House rejects bailout straw
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I hate to say it, but I'll be surprised if there isn't a major war within the next ten years.
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#1053186 - 09/29/08 08:52 PM Re: House rejects bailout FBH
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It will be a long night until we see what the Asian markets do. MORANS!

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#1053191 - 09/29/08 08:54 PM Re: House rejects bailout buggs
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Originally Posted By: Bugs Bunny
It will be a long night until we see what the Asian markets do. MORANS!


That last word is spelled with two "o"s, by the way.
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#1053193 - 09/29/08 08:55 PM Re: House rejects bailout buggs
#Just Jay Online
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Originally Posted By: Bugs Bunny
It will be a long night until we see what the Asian markets do. MORANS!


Speaking of which, you may want to check out your spelling... calling these congressional members a popular Irish surname, will do little to humilate them, unless they are anti-irish
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#1053198 - 09/29/08 08:58 PM Re: House rejects bailout #Just Jay
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I am certain Bugs is poking a little fun at our fellow coolie that has a sign in his avatar than uses the term "morans"
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#1053205 - 09/29/08 09:01 PM Re: House rejects bailout #Just Jay
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
I'll be interested to see greater analysis of what these House Members think needs to be added or deleted from the proposal to make it worthy of their vote. Of course, at least 1 poster here sat in a class last semester that a really smart guy taught, so maybe the erstwhile student should contact the House and go tell them where they are wrong.

I sure hope they aren't holding out until the election, which means no action will take place until at least January. That will probably signal the death knell for several other large banks...
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#1053215 - 09/29/08 09:04 PM Re: House rejects bailout Pale Rider
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My friends were hit hard then rates went up and have been hanging on by a thread to stay out of foreclosure. They've had to show "good faith" to the mortgage company by injecting 2x the mortgage payment for 4 months now.

They've saved the house, but now they've got to catch-up on everything else. She is a manager for Lowe's and he's a plumber so they make decent money.

It sucks to see people struggle.
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#1053264 - 09/29/08 09:26 PM Re: House rejects bailout cheekEE
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
but are they struggling because they were duped into something? or are they struggling because they bit off more than they can chew?
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#1053266 - 09/29/08 09:27 PM Re: House rejects bailout Blade Scrapper
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Quote:
am not an expert on this subject, but I believe the main items left from the "New Deal" were FDIC, Social Security, and Glass-Steagall, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac.


Not exactly - Fannie Mae was the from the New Deal - not Freddie. Fannie started out as National Mortgage Association of Washington in 1938 which was created from the National Housing Act of 1934.

Freddie was created by Congress in 1970 so that Thrifts could also sell their mortgages to the securitized markets. Now if you want to say that's from the New Deal.., uh okay - a delayed birth perhaps?

By the way, has anyone heard from Ginnie Mae in all of this?
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#1053267 - 09/29/08 09:27 PM Re: House rejects bailout Princess Romeo
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Originally Posted By: Bonnie M
As I posted on the other thread, I think the $750 Billion (and maybe much more) is going to be spent whether we like it or not.

Right now, I don't believe the FDIC and NCUA have enough to cover all of the insured depsosit accounts which means the taxpayers will have to cover the exposure.

So in order to cover the money that you have on deposit, you will be signed up to pay taxes to insure that you will get the money that you have worked all of these years to save.


Just look at the manuevers that FDIC has gone through with WaMu and now Wachovia. From the latest Wachovia "buy out":

" As part of the deal, FDIC agreed to protect Citi against losses on $312 billion of Wachovia's more troubled assets, including more than $100 billion of option adjustable-rate mortgages from its doomed acquisition of Golden West at the peak of the housing boom in 2006.

"Citi is exposed to the first $30 billion of losses on that $312 billion portfolio and could take another $12 billion of losses on these assets up to a maximum of $4 billion during each of the next three years. The FDIC will take any extra losses. In return for that support, it gets preferred stock and warrants in Citi worth $12 billion."

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ci...&dist=msr_2

Looks like a backdoor for the bailout plan.....


I will lay even odds that the FDIC never spends a dime on this deal, and is instead richer by the $12 billion in stock and warrants it's getting.

Citi will take the first $42B in losses (assuming not more than $34B the first year and $4B each of the following two years). That's about 13.4% of the $312B in protected assets. If 26% of those loans go to foreclosure and there is only a 50% recovery on those loans, that's still only a net loss ratio of 13% - none of it taken by the taxpayers. Maybe foreclosures will be higher and recoveries lower - but maybe not.

If you count the $12B in stock and warrants, the loss ratio has to get to 17.3% - i.e. 34.6% default w/50% recovery rate - before FDIC pays out anything.
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#1053284 - 09/29/08 09:38 PM Re: House rejects bailout Princess Romeo
#Just Jay Online
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Originally Posted By: Bonnie M
By the way, has anyone heard from Ginnie Mae in all of this?


Oh, I spoke with her last week... she and the kids are fine! As a matter of fact, she and our cousin Farmer Mac are planning on coming up for Thanksgiving!
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#1053288 - 09/29/08 09:39 PM Re: House rejects bailout #Just Jay
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#1053315 - 09/29/08 10:18 PM Re: House rejects bailout #Just Jay
Princess Romeo Offline

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Originally Posted By: Just Jay
Originally Posted By: Bonnie M
By the way, has anyone heard from Ginnie Mae in all of this?


Oh, I spoke with her last week... she and the kids are fine! As a matter of fact, she and our cousin Farmer Mac are planning on coming up for Thanksgiving!


That's like the joke about the examiner in the early 90's who asks a Bank executive what he thought about FDICIA. The executive pauses for a moment and replies "Oh yes! She's the new receptionist on the 2nd floor. Charming girl."
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#1053333 - 09/29/08 11:10 PM Re: House rejects bailout HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By: Happy Gilmore
I'll be interested to see greater analysis of what these House Members think needs to be added or deleted from the proposal to make it worthy of their vote. Of course, at least 1 poster here sat in a class last semester that a really smart guy taught, so maybe the erstwhile student should contact the House and go tell them where they are wrong.

I sure hope they aren't holding out until the election, which means no action will take place until at least January. That will probably signal the death knell for several other large banks...


The best analogy that I can think of regarding the "bailout" vs. doing nothing is to compare the current economic/market situation to a balloon that has been blown up.

The markets were inflated by these debt swaps and speculation (aka gambling.... but whatever) until there was no room left to go just like you have blown up a balloon to its capacity. Now if you keep pumping air into the balloon it will break, and recognizing that, you stop which is analogous to this credit freeze.

But you can't hold this balloon forever and you are unable to tie it up completely, so you either control the opening to let the air out or you just let it go in hopes you can find the balloon (credit markets) where ever it might land.

The bailout package is an attempt at a controlled deflation, and doing nothing means letting the balloon fly off with no idea if we can ever recover it.

The sad irony is that a lot of elderly people who survived the Great Depression as children or teenagers are now seeing their retirement evaporate into nothing almost overnight. Most of the Wall Street "fatcats" will probably land on their feet, and today's vote will likely have a far greater negative impact on people who had nothing to do with the situation.

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#1053342 - 09/30/08 12:01 AM Re: House rejects bailout Princess Romeo
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Dang, Bonnie, you're good, girl!

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#1053353 - 09/30/08 01:02 AM Re: House rejects bailout #Just Jay
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Quote:
This whole mess is a pig in a snake

i've never heard that metaphor beore but i love it!

Quote:
Let a few of the big boys fall, let a few more take the lumps from the bets they made, and allow several new companies/banks and such arise from the ashes better, leaner and more innovative than ever before.

if this were all that would happen, i doubt that there even would be talk of a bailout in the first place. i hope that our economy capitulates and rebounds quickly, but right now, we just knifed our entire economy while it is recovering from a heart attack. i'm not trying to be a fear-mongerer but just remember how you feel right now because you are going to need to carry that feeling with you for the next several years.

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#1053356 - 09/30/08 01:12 AM Re: House rejects bailout Princess Romeo
Hated By Some Offline
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Quote:
Most of the Wall Street "fatcats" will probably land on their feet, and today's vote will likely have a far greater negative impact on people who had nothing to do with the situation.


^^^^
this should be the final comment on this mess wrt the "victory" that some are claiming today.

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#1053361 - 09/30/08 01:30 AM Re: House rejects bailout FBH
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Originally Posted By: FBH
I just hope we hurry up and do this so we can ally with Eastasia and finally beat our hated enemy, Eurasia!!!


Oh no, you're confused - we've always been at war with Eastasia!

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#1053362 - 09/30/08 01:35 AM Re: House rejects bailout Yossarian
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i hope that congress has felt like they were able to get some stuff off their chest and can come back and get something done.

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#1053370 - 09/30/08 03:02 AM Re: House rejects bailout Hated By Some
buggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: McCain Economics
i hope that congress has felt like they were able to get some stuff off their chest and can come back and get something done.

If they don't, then they're MORANS! The Democratic leadership couldn't even organize THEIR OWN party members to get on board. If that's "leadership," then I'm Mickey Mouse. MORANS!!!!!

Kinda makes me think that if the Democrats who control Congress can't come together and accomplish something important, what in the [censored] are they going to do when Obama gets elected? We're screwed no matter who wins the election.

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#1053372 - 09/30/08 03:09 AM Re: House rejects bailout buggs
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Bugs, I knew the Moran's. Nice folks from Huntington. But I don't think any of them ever served in Congress.
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