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#1055068 - 10/01/08 02:36 PM Re: Why the Bail Out is a bad idea... B_F
Retired DQ Offline
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Retired DQ
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: Sox in 07
DQ, I couldn't agree with you more. The blame starts with the consumer (some of them) and right up the chain. Period. People used their homes like ATM machines. If a banker tells them they "qualify for $X", they should decide if they feel comfortable paying X every month-what someone can qualify for and what they feel comfortable paying are 2 different things. We don't take into account many many expenses homeowners run across, as well as other types of expenses-repairs, general upkeep, furnishings, utilities, child care, etc. Anyone that allows a banker/lender to decide what they can afford is foolish.


While this is true to some extent, I recall quite vividly when I bought my first home a few years back. My lender kept trying to tell me I could afford a higher payment than I thought I could. She kept pointing out the tax benefits of the deductions, and how that would save me money. She suggested increasing my claimed exemptions to bring home more money each paycheck. If I had simply accepted her word as an expert, and let's face it, most Americans look at the loan officer as an expert who wouldn't dream of loaning them more than they could really afford. After all, that's just asking for the loan to fail, right, and lenders who do that should lose their jobs. But in any case, I accepted her word, but then did my own research, and it wasn't "easy" to do either, calculating how much interest I would be paying, how much tax I would be paying, etc. before deciding on which home I wanted. Would most people do what I did, and confirm what the lender is telling them? Probably not. Why? Because COMMON SENSE says that it is not in the bank's interest to make me a loan I can't afford. But yet banks did exactly that, didn't they?



Common sense tells me that my mortgage payment should not exceed 25% of my gross income.

People are greedy, foolish and financially uneducated.
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#1055504 - 10/01/08 04:53 PM Re: Why the Bail Out is a bad idea... Retired DQ
B_F Offline
Power Poster
B_F
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
Originally Posted By: Devil Queen
Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: Sox in 07
DQ, I couldn't agree with you more. The blame starts with the consumer (some of them) and right up the chain. Period. People used their homes like ATM machines. If a banker tells them they "qualify for $X", they should decide if they feel comfortable paying X every month-what someone can qualify for and what they feel comfortable paying are 2 different things. We don't take into account many many expenses homeowners run across, as well as other types of expenses-repairs, general upkeep, furnishings, utilities, child care, etc. Anyone that allows a banker/lender to decide what they can afford is foolish.


While this is true to some extent, I recall quite vividly when I bought my first home a few years back. My lender kept trying to tell me I could afford a higher payment than I thought I could. She kept pointing out the tax benefits of the deductions, and how that would save me money. She suggested increasing my claimed exemptions to bring home more money each paycheck. If I had simply accepted her word as an expert, and let's face it, most Americans look at the loan officer as an expert who wouldn't dream of loaning them more than they could really afford. After all, that's just asking for the loan to fail, right, and lenders who do that should lose their jobs. But in any case, I accepted her word, but then did my own research, and it wasn't "easy" to do either, calculating how much interest I would be paying, how much tax I would be paying, etc. before deciding on which home I wanted. Would most people do what I did, and confirm what the lender is telling them? Probably not. Why? Because COMMON SENSE says that it is not in the bank's interest to make me a loan I can't afford. But yet banks did exactly that, didn't they?



Common sense tells me that my mortgage payment should not exceed 25% of my gross income.

People are greedy, foolish and financially uneducated.


You're right, until a lender starts telling you that you can afford more than you think you can, and they know. After all once you factor in this, and factor in that.... Do you believe your own gut, or the professionals?

And you're right. People are financially uneducated. And isn't part of the lender's job to educate them, not lead them on a path of taking out a loan they can't afford?
Last edited by Bengalsfan; 10/01/08 04:54 PM.
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#1055542 - 10/01/08 05:18 PM Re: Why the Bail Out is a bad idea... B_F
TB 12 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,559
Foxboro
I agree to an extent, BF, but if an auto salesman tells me I can afford a Porsche, should i go "DUH..ok-where do I sign". I should start thinking about insurance, registration and maintenance.

A good lender will help educate a borrower-and explain that qualifying for a loan isn't the same as someone having a payment they can feel comfortable with. (and I am not talking about predatory and deceptive lending). Some people may be willing to sacrifice eating out, buying the new car every 3 years, and buying all new furniture to cover that payment-others will go out and buy it all-the heck with the consequences.

Don't get me wrong-I think there was too much access to inexpensive credit but people have the "I want it now" attitude.
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#1055560 - 10/01/08 05:24 PM Re: Why the Bail Out is a bad idea... TB 12
RR Becca Offline
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RR Becca
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,249
out of the frying pan...
Another thing to consider is that the mortgage originator running the numbers (whether greedy, dishonest, or otherwise) does not have as clear a picture of the applicant's finances as the applicant does. They can run the DTI ratio, they can show them what average figures will be for payments, insurance, etc....what they cannot do is know how much income the applicant uses for gas, groceries, childcare, etc. each month and how it will affect their ability to handle the mortgage payment along with maintenance of the home.

I can't tell you how many times I walked someone through an application and GFE, only to then explain that these others factors were unknowable to me and that they'd have to take a good hard look at their own budget before deciding whether or not they could honestly afford the loan we were discussing. You'd be surprised how many people said, "Well, when you explain it that way...." and then lowered the price range they were shopping in.
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#1055732 - 10/01/08 07:06 PM Re: Why the Bail Out is a bad idea... TB 12
B_F Offline
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B_F
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
Originally Posted By: Sox in 07
I agree to an extent, BF, but if an auto salesman tells me I can afford a Porsche, should i go "DUH..ok-where do I sign". I should start thinking about insurance, registration and maintenance.


But when that salesman tells you that you can afford that Porsche, when he takes it to the people that line it up for a credit check and to get you a loan, if you can't afford it, most of the time, you don't get the loan, right?

In the case of a mortgage, when you're getting a preapproval, often, it is the lender who is the salesperson, but most people don't think of bankers as salespeople. They think of them as lenders who won't make them a loan they can't afford, because then they will default, and the bank loses.

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#1055754 - 10/01/08 07:15 PM Re: Why the Bail Out is a bad idea... B_F
Hated By Some Offline
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Hated By Some
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,603
Somewhere vanilla
Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: Sox in 07
I agree to an extent, BF, but if an auto salesman tells me I can afford a Porsche, should i go "DUH..ok-where do I sign". I should start thinking about insurance, registration and maintenance.


But when that salesman tells you that you can afford that Porsche, when he takes it to the people that line it up for a credit check and to get you a loan, if you can't afford it, most of the time, you don't get the loan, right?

In the case of a mortgage, when you're getting a preapproval, often, it is the lender who is the salesperson, but most people don't think of bankers as salespeople. They think of them as lenders who won't make them a loan they can't afford, because then they will default, and the bank loses.

is there complete planet alignment happening right now?

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#1055763 - 10/01/08 07:19 PM Re: Why the Bail Out is a bad idea... Hated By Some
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
why have you discovered a logical thought rattling around in your head?

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