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#1058891 - 10/06/08 05:06 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Jokerman
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,488
North East
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My guess, the same thing! Very helpful, thanks!  And your question did not imply that the market would be far worse? That would be your guess. But, speculation is what put us in this situation in the first place. Do you always attempt to lead by fear and speculation?
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#1058892 - 10/06/08 05:07 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Hated By Some
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Power Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,568
New Jersey
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I'm moving some money out of short term into stocks. Looks like a buying opportunity right now to me. the best investor in the world agrees with you.  Right you are, Ronno! If you have the courage, now is the time to buffet the winds of turmoil. 
_________________________
Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. Peter Drucker
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#1058902 - 10/06/08 05:14 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Robin Goodfellow
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Power Poster
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,298
only if I want to....
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No...that is not what I want to do at all, but it does concern me for especially the elderly that are not investment savy. I don't know how many of you guys have seen this in your institutions but it does incite panick especially amoung that age group and for them it bothers me.
I do tend to like Cramer myself, but I worry about the affects of him saying that on TV like he said it.....just sayin
_________________________
Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart...Prov 3:5-6
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#1058942 - 10/06/08 05:40 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Comp Guy No More
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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My guess, the same thing! Very helpful, thanks! And your question did not imply that the market would be far worse? That would be your guess. But, speculation is what put us in this situation in the first place. Do you always attempt to lead by fear and speculation? First, lighten up, Francis. This is an internet message board - anyone trying to "lead" here needs to get a life. You don't like the "bailout" plan - we get it. But you have yet to answer how your "insurance" plan injects liquidity into a deleveraging economy. Maybe if you answered that question, instead of parroting a plan you heard about somewhere else, I'd be interested in hearing it. Cheap rhetorical points about what the Dow is doing today, in the face of Europe's realization about just how deep their problems are, is not of particular interest to me. But, again, thanks.
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#1059074 - 10/06/08 07:28 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Jokerman
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,488
North East
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You provided the link for me! Thanks! From my Common Sense Plan post: Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance. Government-insured and backed loans would have an instant market all over the world, creating immediate and needed liquidity.
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#1059112 - 10/06/08 07:46 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Comp Guy No More
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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You provided the link for me! Thanks! From my Common Sense Plan post: Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance. Government-insured and backed loans would have an instant market all over the world, creating immediate and needed liquidity. What value would the insurance cover? Never got an answer to that question. Would it be book value, current market value or something in between? And how does the insurance provide liquidity? May make the securities safer, but won't necessarily get investors to open their purse strings, which is really what is needed.
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#1059142 - 10/06/08 07:59 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Hated By Some
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100 Club
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 197
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buffet is a value investor. he found 3 firms in as many weeks that he's pumped some 15bn into. buffet is essentially building in a premium for his investments so that others aren't just riding on his hard work. also, since he has the balls to do this, he can demand premiums from the targets because they need the money.
in other words, his premiums are from the pref stock/bonds.
just remember, not every company is ge or goldman sachs but there is unequivocally value to be had in the market. i wouldn't be too intimidated that you aren't going to get the premiums that buffet got in the deals. chances are that you are an equity appreciation investor anyway. Wouldn't it be nice, one time, to be able to invest like this? And if you lose you still have a few billion left over!!!
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#1059211 - 10/06/08 08:28 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
straw
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,488
North East
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You provided the link for me! Thanks! From my Common Sense Plan post: Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance. Government-insured and backed loans would have an instant market all over the world, creating immediate and needed liquidity. What value would the insurance cover? Never got an answer to that question. Would it be book value, current market value or something in between? And how does the insurance provide liquidity? May make the securities safer, but won't necessarily get investors to open their purse strings, which is really what is needed. I don't have an answer on the value. I think somewhere in between since the plan also proposed eliminating mark-to-market for subprime bonds and mortgages. It doesn't provide money directly but by providing insurance the bonds become more saleable. The intent is to create a market for these loans. They're not all bad (non-performing).
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#1059242 - 10/06/08 08:42 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
Comp Guy No More
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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You provided the link for me! Thanks! From my Common Sense Plan post: Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance. Government-insured and backed loans would have an instant market all over the world, creating immediate and needed liquidity. What value would the insurance cover? Never got an answer to that question. Would it be book value, current market value or something in between? And how does the insurance provide liquidity? May make the securities safer, but won't necessarily get investors to open their purse strings, which is really what is needed. I don't have an answer on the value. I think somewhere in between since the plan also proposed eliminating mark-to-market for subprime bonds and mortgages. It doesn't provide money directly but by providing insurance the bonds become more saleable. The intent is to create a market for these loans. They're not all bad (non-performing). Liquidity? This is the exact reason the plan was scrubbed. Don't get me wrong, I don't know if the adopted plan will work any better, but I thought the insurance plan had zero chance.
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#1059327 - 10/06/08 10:24 PM
Re: [s]Rescue[/s] Bailout Passes, Dow below 10,000
straw
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Comp Guy, the problem right now is deleveraging and a lack of liquidity. You can argue that it's just a painful process that we've got to get through - I'm sympathetic to the argument but I'm not willing to make it. But I don't see how you can argue that insuring these assets provides an offset to the deleveraging problem that is the heart of the crisis. The plan to purchase creates liquidity and adds leverage to the economy through the treasury, so I see how it can help.
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