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#1112578 - 01/16/09 06:10 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Snow Bunny
#Just Jay Online
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Why is walking off the job not an option?

He was hired to drive a bus. If he has a problem driving said bus due to the advertising he should walk off then, because otherwise I'd be firing him. I am sure they have other people already sweeping and cleaning. they need people to drive.

Nothing personal. He has personal beliefs to needs to stick to, and I have a money making business to run.
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#1112581 - 01/16/09 06:12 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... GuitarDude
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Quote:
So you don't (choose to) read the ongoing news stories where atheists protest religious references and take up the courts' time suing over it?


I think you're confusing this issue with someone suing under the First Amendment because the government promotes religion.

Protesting something that your employer does risks getting you fired. An atheist bus driver that refused to drive because of a religious advertisement would be in the same position as this driver.

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#1112588 - 01/16/09 06:17 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... straw
Becka Marr Offline
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Originally Posted By: straw
What about driving a vehicle that supports crash commercialism?


Again, I don't see how the vehicle is supporting anything. It's a man-made object that simply doesn't care about things like religion.

Nor do I think that the bus company is endorsing anything just by accepting money from an advertiser so that they can continue to operate and provide transportation service. The only person(s) interested in promoting anything is the advertiser.

It seems as silly to me for this man to quit his job (if that's actually what he did) over this advertisement as it would be for a copy editor to walk off the job because he's a non-smoker and the newspaper he works for prints cigarette ads.
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#1112593 - 01/16/09 06:19 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
I think you're confusing this issue with someone suing under the First Amendment because the government promotes religion.



I think not

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_/ai_n27925966


Quote:
In 2006, Vanessa Willcock filed a complaint with the New Mexico Human Rights Commission against a company called Elane Photography for refusing to photograph her gay commitment ceremony. The business is owned by a husband and wife--evangelical Christians who have made a decision not to photograph ceremonies related to gay unions. In April, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission found against Elane Photography and ordered it to pay $6,637 for Willcock's legal fees in bringing the complaint. The decision has been appealed.
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#1112596 - 01/16/09 06:20 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Yossarian
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JJ - he should stay and and drive a different bus, or do other duties if he can. That way he is still doing some type of job.

I don't think the beginning blurb of this thread tells a complete story. Without a complete story - this is all just conjecture. (But then again, that's what most of the Cooler is).

If the company offerred no other options, yes, he should walk off. However, he should have exhausted all other options before walking off.
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#1112599 - 01/16/09 06:24 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Becka Marr
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: Becka Marr
[quote=straw]

It seems as silly to me for this man to quit his job (if that's actually what he did) over this advertisement as it would be for a copy editor to walk off the job because he's a non-smoker and the newspaper he works for prints cigarette ads.


now that is a good analogy to this situation.

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#1112600 - 01/16/09 06:25 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted By: Pooh (The Bear)
JJ - he should stay and and drive a different bus, or do other duties if he can. That way he is still doing some type of job.

I don't think the beginning blurb of this thread tells a complete story. Without a complete story - this is all just conjecture. (But then again, that's what most of the Cooler is).

If the company offerred no other options, yes, he should walk off. However, he should have exhausted all other options before walking off.



I agree that there is not enough background provided, so we are kinda filling in the gaps and taking the story where we want it to go.

But why should the private company offer other options?? He was hired to drive the bus. Either drive the bus you are assigned, or don't. But if you don't, why should the company make any further concessions to him?

It is not the company's responsibility to make sure he has some sort of job to do if he does not like the one he is given. It is his own.
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#1112604 - 01/16/09 06:28 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Snow Bunny
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It's really between him and his employer. The righteous indignation from those about the poor people who are not going to receive life saving treatment becuse they had to wait a few minutes more for another bus or driver is quite amusing.
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#1112608 - 01/16/09 06:31 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Blade Scrapper
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Originally Posted By: The Phil Zone
Originally Posted By: Yossarian
I think you're confusing this issue with someone suing under the First Amendment because the government promotes religion.



I think not

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_/ai_n27925966


Quote:
In 2006, Vanessa Willcock filed a complaint with the New Mexico Human Rights Commission against a company called Elane Photography for refusing to photograph her gay commitment ceremony. The business is owned by a husband and wife--evangelical Christians who have made a decision not to photograph ceremonies related to gay unions. In April, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission found against Elane Photography and ordered it to pay $6,637 for Willcock's legal fees in bringing the complaint. The decision has been appealed.


Let's not forget the whole suit that forced eHarmony to open a gay alternative.

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#1112609 - 01/16/09 06:31 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Blade Scrapper
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Quote:
In 2006, Vanessa Willcock filed a complaint with the New Mexico Human Rights Commission against a company called Elane Photography for refusing to photograph her gay commitment ceremony. The business is owned by a husband and wife--evangelical Christians who have made a decision not to photograph ceremonies related to gay unions. In April, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission found against Elane Photography and ordered it to pay $6,637 for Willcock's legal fees in bringing the complaint. The decision has been appealed.


couldn't they just go get another photographer?
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#1112615 - 01/16/09 06:34 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Peepers
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Originally Posted By: Mr. Peepers
Quote:
In 2006, Vanessa Willcock filed a complaint with the New Mexico Human Rights Commission against a company called Elane Photography for refusing to photograph her gay commitment ceremony. The business is owned by a husband and wife--evangelical Christians who have made a decision not to photograph ceremonies related to gay unions. In April, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission found against Elane Photography and ordered it to pay $6,637 for Willcock's legal fees in bringing the complaint. The decision has been appealed.


couldn't they just go get another photographer?


Yes, but then that would not give them a soapbox to waste our time with.
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#1112618 - 01/16/09 06:39 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Peepers
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Enough of this "we have to accept everyone and serve them all" carp.

Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to accept everything that everyone does; it means standing up for what you believe that Christ would stand for.
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#1112620 - 01/16/09 06:40 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Becka Marr
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Originally Posted By: Becka Marr
Originally Posted By: straw
What about driving a vehicle that supports crash commercialism?


Again, I don't see how the vehicle is supporting anything. It's a man-made object that simply doesn't care about things like religion. It's a man-made object being used to convey a very specific religious, or anti-religious, belief.

Nor do I think that the bus company is endorsing anything just by accepting money from an advertiser so that they can continue to operate and provide transportation service. The only person(s) interested in promoting anything is the advertiser. Then why do TV and radio stations censor certain ads? Because being a pacifist is not an excuse for perpetuating something you don't believe in or that goes directly against your beliefs.

It seems as silly to me for this man to quit his job (if that's actually what he did) over this advertisement as it would be for a copy editor to walk off the job because he's a non-smoker and the newspaper he works for prints cigarette ads. It's sad and ironic that you think standing up for beliefs is silly while you continue to post yours here.
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#1112623 - 01/16/09 06:43 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... GuitarDude
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I don't understand why a private business is found liable for not doing something. If they took someone's money and didn't provide a service, that's one thing. But refusing to do something if for no other reason than 'just because', big deal, go somewhere else.

Forcing bars to ban smoking also confuses me, and I don't smoke.
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#1112626 - 01/16/09 06:45 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Blade Scrapper
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Originally Posted By: The Phil Zone
It's really between him and his employer. The righteous indignation from those about the poor people who are not going to receive life saving treatment becuse they had to wait a few minutes more for another bus or driver is quite amusing.


Another entry for the English to Phil dictionary:
'sincere question' = 'righteous indignation'

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#1112632 - 01/16/09 06:49 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... GuitarDude
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What about if you just flat out did not agree with your boss about a certain moral situation. Would it be acceptable to walk out because of differences in moral code or would you expect everyone to suck it up because it is your job and you just have to deal with the boss because they are the boss.

The man made a choice, and it was his to make. The company made the decision to post the advertisement to make money, which was also their choice and the man made the decision he did not want to work for people that supported a moral code so radically different from his.

Choices are individual.

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#1112634 - 01/16/09 06:51 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... MB Guy
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: MB Guy
Enough of this "we have to accept everyone and serve them all" carp.

Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to accept everything that everyone does; it means standing up for what you believe that Christ would stand for.



Temperance? Anti-Commericialism? Pro-Life? What other signs on a bus would Christ not stand for? I would think no adverstisements I have seen. Perhaps others feel differently.

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#1112638 - 01/16/09 06:52 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Peepers
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mr. Peepers
I don't understand why a private business is found liable for not doing something. If they took someone's money and didn't provide a service, that's one thing. But refusing to do something if for no other reason than 'just because', big deal, go somewhere else.

Forcing bars to ban smoking also confuses me, and I don't smoke.


Refuse to photgraph Blacks?

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#1112640 - 01/16/09 06:53 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... straw
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Straw, another good point. I guess that's between you and Christ and a personal decision you have to make; just like this guy did.
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#1112646 - 01/16/09 06:57 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... MB Guy
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No, don't buy your bolded section. Christ stands for something, but to say each one of us gets to interpret it... sounds like cafeteria Christianity to me. I will take this but leave that.

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#1112648 - 01/16/09 06:58 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... MB Guy
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No debate about religion will ever be won, people. Accept that there are differences in opinion, show some respect to the other side, and move along.
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#1112649 - 01/16/09 06:58 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... MB Guy
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would everybody just GET ON THE BUS!!!?????






smile

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#1112652 - 01/16/09 06:59 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: Hrothgar Gieger
Originally Posted By: The Phil Zone
It's really between him and his employer. The righteous indignation from those about the poor people who are not going to receive life saving treatment becuse they had to wait a few minutes more for another bus or driver is quite amusing.


Another entry for the English to Phil dictionary:
'sincere question' = 'righteous indignation'
entry for English to barbie dictionary...

sincere answer="English to Phil" entry
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#1112655 - 01/16/09 07:02 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... GuitarDude
Becka Marr Offline
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Originally Posted By: GuitarDude
It's a man-made object being used to convey a very specific religious, or anti-religious, belief.


So your position is that religious organizations shouldn't be allowed to advertise? confused

Originally Posted By: GuitarDude
Then why do TV and radio stations censor certain ads?


Because they are governed by the FCC, which has specific rules about what can or can't be broadcast - particularly concerning language.

Originally Posted By: GuitarDude
It's sad and ironic that you think standing up for beliefs is silly while you continue to post yours here.


I didn't say anything about standing up for beliefs being silly.
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#1112656 - 01/16/09 07:02 PM Re: Christian man refuses to drive Atheist bus... straw
MB Guy Offline
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Originally Posted By: straw
No, don't buy your bolded section. Christ stands for something, but to say each one of us gets to interpret it... sounds like cafeteria Christianity to me. I will take this but leave that.


Good grief. What I was saying is that there are general rules that most Christians believe regarding what is right and what is wrong, however when it comes to situations like this, where there are no clear rights and wrongs and that each person has to take what they believe Christ would believe and follow that.
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