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#113702 - 09/10/03 07:04 PM TIN - Applied for
Anonymous
Unregistered

Is there a place on the net where you can print an application for TIN?

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BSA/AML/CIP/OFAC Forum
#113703 - 09/10/03 07:22 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
conniew Offline
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conniew
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 155
St. Louis, MO
This should take you to the SS-4 form for the IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-fill/fss4.pdf

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#113704 - 09/10/03 07:54 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
Anonymous
Unregistered

Do you complete a SS-4 for a business and an W-7 for an individual, or will one of the forms be fit for both?

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#113705 - 09/10/03 08:47 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
If the TIN you need is an SSN, you need a Social Security Administration form SS-5

http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.pdf

For an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer ID Number), back to the IRS for a W-7

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-fill/fw7.pdf

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John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

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#113706 - 09/10/03 09:16 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
Anonymous
Unregistered

I'm sorry for my confusion, but I'm still a little baffled. What if a business does not have an identification number? I thought that the Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) and Social Security Number (SSN) were the same thing?

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#113707 - 09/10/03 09:52 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
A SSN is a social security number, which can be obtained by US citizens, resident aliens, and certain other non US persons who legally work in the US. It is issued by the Social Security Administration.

An ITIN is an Individual Taxpayer ID Number issued by the IRS to certain non US citizens who are not eligible for SSNs but require a taxpayer number for certain IRS purposes. An example might be the spouse of a foreign worker who is allowed to accompany the foreign worker in this country, but cannot be employed. The IRS web site has an excellent description of the ITIN

Sole proprietorship business may use their owners' SSN for opening bank accounts and paying taxes. If they have employees, they often will also have an Employer ID number (EIN) from the IRS. But under CIP rules, you will collect their SSN.

Same on some sole-owner LLCs (Limited Liability Companies), and certain limited types of trusts.

All other businesses and entities must obtain an EIN from the IRS.

Now, aren't you glad you asked?
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

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#113708 - 09/17/03 04:26 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
Anonymous
Unregistered

Does anyone know how you can verify if a customer applied for a EIN?

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#113709 - 09/17/03 09:34 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
One way is to see the completed SS-4 form and listen in as the customer dials the IRS and obtains the TIN over the telephone.

Other than that, there's not a lot that's any more convincing than an "applied for" W-9 form. Just a completed SS-4 form means no more than it was filled out. You can't really PROVE that it's been filed.
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John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

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#113710 - 09/17/03 11:36 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
J Hunt Offline
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 132
Phoenix, AZ
Carrying this to the next step: has anyone come up with a way of verifying an EIN when the customer cannot locate their copy of their SS-4, they have no credit history in the business name on a credit report/D&B, and the state corporate commission does not include EIN on the public filing page?
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#113711 - 09/18/03 06:50 PM Re: TIN - Applied for
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
The customer -- or its accountant -- ought to have some IRS related form with the EIN on it. A payroll tax deposit? A form 941 reporting quarterly payroll taxes withheld? A corporate tax return? A form letter from the IRS issuing the EIN?

No one with employees can avoid having to file one of these forms for much longer than 90 days!
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

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#113712 - 09/19/03 10:21 AM Re: TIN - Applied for
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
The instructions on the application for an EIN indicate your customer can: Call 1-800-829-1040 to verify a number or to ask about the status of an application by mail.
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In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

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