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#1147141 - 03/18/09 05:18 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Yossarian
straw Offline
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straw
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Expected, although I am surprised you are discussing this, since it is not a bill, nor has anyone attempted to introduce a bill on this topic.

Given your standard regarding Fairness Doctrine and that there was nothing happening until a bill was introduced, I thought you would state that nothing is happening here.

Have you changed your standard or did that only apply to the Fairness Doctrine?

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#1147143 - 03/18/09 05:20 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Yossarian
Snow Bunny Offline
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But since laws can and are changed, the veterans would live in a constant state of uncertainty. Today - ok - no lifetime maximum; tomorrow - uh-oh - no more coverage.

If these brave people risked their lives and were injured while serving our country - our country should honor them and pay for them.
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#1147147 - 03/18/09 05:26 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Snow Bunny
straw Offline
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Here is a Wall Street Journal op ed piece on this topic. This is an OPINION piece. I make no claims or warranties as to the authenticity. The views expressed in this piece are the author's alone.

By DAVID K. REHBEIN
'If you were injured in Iraq or Afghanistan and you have not paid your co-pay, please press 1. If you were injured during military training and you have not yet reached your deductible, please press 2. If your family has reached its maximum insurance benefit, please call back after you have purchased additional coverage. Thank you for your service."

Before the leaders of other veteran's groups and I met with President Barack Obama at the White House on Monday, I believed a phone call like the one described above unimaginable. Now it seems all too possible.

President Obama made clear during our discussion that he intends to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans with service-connected disabilities. He is trying to unfairly generate $540 million on the backs of veterans.

The proposed requirement for private companies to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) would not only be unfair, but would have an adverse impact on service-connected disabled veterans and their families. Depending on the severity of the medical conditions involved, maximum insurance coverage limits could be reached through treatment of the veteran's condition alone. That would leave the rest of the family without health-care benefits.

Currently, when veterans go to a VA hospital or related health-care facility for treatment of a service-connected disability, they receive the care without any billing to the veterans or the veterans' insurance. (On the other hand, those veterans who choose the VA for the treatment of nonservice-connected disabilities pay a co-pay, and the VA bills private insurance companies reasonable charges.)

Perhaps nobody would be hit harder by the Obama administration's proposal than the thousands of veterans who own small businesses. Not only will their private insurance premiums be drastically elevated to cover service-connected disabilities, but many will be forced to cut staff as a result. The unemployment rate for veterans may climb even higher, as businesses avoid hiring these heroes for fear of the impact they would have on insurance rates.

This plan is as unfair as it is unnecessary. According to the U.S. Constitution, it is the president and Congress who send troops in harm's way, not the CEO of Blue Cross Blue Shield.

As head of the nation's largest veterans organization, I was startled by this radical shift of position the president has taken. Last October, candidate Obama listed several proposals he had for the VA and none of them included billing veterans' insurance providers.

In fact, when asked how he would improve the funding formula for the VA's health-care system, then-Sen. Obama told the American Legion Magazine, "It starts with the president saying that if I'm budgeting for war, then I am also budgeting for VA. If I've got a half-a-trillion-dollar Pentagon budget, then I'd better make sure that I make some of those billions of dollars available to care for the soldiers once they come home. It should be a non-negotiable proposition that people are receiving the services that they need. This is the reason I joined the Veterans Affairs Committee -- because I believe deeply in that principle."

So I ask President Obama now, for all America's veterans, where is that principled stance today? By abandoning its responsibilities to the heroic men and women who answered our nation's call, the federal government is breaking a sacred promise. Moreover, it is unnecessary.

The 2.6 million member American Legion has long advocated for Medicare to reimburse the VA for its treatment of Medicare-eligible veterans. Veterans pay into the Medicare-system, yet they are unable to use Medicare benefits in the VA health system, which was created specifically for them. The Indian Health Service is successfully billing and collecting needed revenue for both Medicare and Medicaid. We also believe that direct billing between two federal agencies will reduce the opportunities for waste, fraud and abuse that tend to occur when for-profit corporations enter the mix.

Our military veterans have already served this country. They have given us their blood, sweat and devotion. Under President Obama's proposal, the most severely wounded veterans could easily exceed their maximum insurance benefit, leaving their family without any additional coverage. This is hardly the thanks of a grateful nation.

Mr. Rehbein, a former U.S. Army sergeant of the Vietnam War era, is national commander of the 2.6 million-member American Legion, the nation's largest wartime veterans organization.

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#1147148 - 03/18/09 05:27 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Yossarian
QCL Offline
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OK, I am replying in the quick reply box following straw's post (on page 1)...which is what I did last time (used quick reply).

Straw, I think hidden costs will include the following:
1. Go against lifetime max, because no one in gov't will be smart enough to think that one through

2. Does this (an war related injury) become a pre-esisting condition? If you switch jobs, will it no longer be covered? If it is no longer covered, well then I guess you can see real costs here.

3. If a vet has self-insurance (they are self-employed) what will their premiums rise to (since they will be considered 'high risk' in the world of insurance?

4. Job loss, higher premiums paid by all employees, higher cost for insurance... I mentioned self-insured employers above. Think of the unpredictable or catastorophic claims from war-related injuries. personally, hubby's employer is self-insured. When my daughter was listed for a second liver transplant, the employer sought medical excess insurance, through...AIG.

5. If a vet loses their job, will they be required to obtain COBRA to pay for war related injuries, that also seems like a very real cost?
Last edited by QueenChop'dLiver; 03/18/09 05:29 PM. Reason: I type very slooooowwwww.
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#1147149 - 03/18/09 05:27 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan straw
Yossarian Offline
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Sometimes I ask myself whether it's worth the effort to post here. Your attitude makes answering that question much easier.

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#1147155 - 03/18/09 05:29 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Yossarian
straw Offline
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My attitude calling out your own logical inconsistencies. Yeah, the problem is mine and mine alone.

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#1147157 - 03/18/09 05:31 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan straw
QCL Offline
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Oh come on....I posted a really good, well thought out post and you too are gonna play like babies?

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#1147159 - 03/18/09 05:32 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan QCL
straw Offline
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Sorry my Queen, but you hit on many of the points the lobbyist did. I think those are good questions and concerns.

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#1147180 - 03/18/09 05:46 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan QCL
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Originally Posted By: QueenChop'dLiver
Oh come on....I posted a really good, well thought out post and you too are gonna play like babies?



Well they *are* good questions. They still seem focused on 'private insurance instead of government coverage' when I thought the proposal was 'private insurance in addition to government coverage'.

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#1147210 - 03/18/09 06:15 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Hrothgar Geiger
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
well, anyone who has more than 1 insurance policy will tell you that the neither policy wants to be the "first policy of coverage" and the other one will only pay a portion./ For example, let's say you have insuarance that pays 80% on major medical, and a secondary policy to cover that additonal 20%. If your first insurance company finds you have one that pays the other 20%, then they will only cover 60% when they reimburse, leaving you still at 80% and owing 20% more. If the plan (which no one knows enough about) will be similar to this, I think it will be worse for the veterans.

Personnaly, I think these guys deserve 100% coverage and we ought to gve them a fricking repo'd house as a token of our appreciation. Lord knows the government will be owning enough of these via fannie and freddie.
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#1147214 - 03/18/09 06:19 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan HappyGilmore
Snow Bunny Offline
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You may be right HG, but my understanding was if they can be covered under their own or a spouse's private insurance, that insurance company would then reimburse the VA.

No matter which way you slice it - active military and vets should be covered by the government 100%. IMHO - no Ifs, Ands, Whats, or Buts about it.
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#1147295 - 03/18/09 07:53 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Snow Bunny
kms Offline
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God Bless America
Thank you winnie, I cant imagine the cost of all the work I have done on my back would cost
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#1147303 - 03/18/09 08:04 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan kms
Bimmer Offline
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Wow! For once I actually agree with John Stewart and what he had to say about this topic!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=220571&title=that-cant-be-right-veterans
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#1147468 - 03/18/09 11:32 PM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Bimmer
straw Offline
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Obama drops controversial plan, although since Fox News is reporting it, I am not sure if it is true.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100...unded-veterans/

President Obama, after an uproar by veterans groups, has scrapped a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs for the treatment of troops injured in service.

"In considering the third-party billing issue, the administration was seeking to maximize the resources available for veterans," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Wednesday in a written statement. "However, the president listened to concerns raised by the [veteran service organizations] that this might, under certain circumstances, affect veterans' and their families' ability to access health care.

"Therefore, the president has instructed that its consideration be dropped," Gibbs said.

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#1147516 - 03/19/09 04:17 AM Re: Veterans Groups Blast Obama Plan Hrothgar Geiger
Seadevil Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hrothgar Gieger
Seadevil,

The proposition that private health insurers should pay for veteran's health care in addition to coverage by the Federal government is probably a bad idea for any number of reasons. Frankly, I don't know enough about the underlying details to even begin to list the reasons why it's a bad idea.

The quote you attributed to Michelle Obama on the topic, though struck me as dramatically opposed to statements she made when visiting Ft. Bragg last week. There, she said, "Our soldiers and their families have done their duty and they do it without complaint. And we as a grateful nation must do ours do everything in our power to honor them by supporting them."

So, I looked up your quote. What a surprise! It wasn't made in the context of veteran's benefits. Heck, it wasn't even made in 2009. The full quote by Michelle Obama, "If we don't wake up as a nation with a new kind of leadership…for how we want this country to work, then we won't get universal health care. The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more." It was said in April 2008.

You are certainly free to pillory the First Lady all you like. You might just pick your spots a little better.


I'm not going to get into a wee wee contest with you. However, if you had read the statement below Mrs. Obama's quote, you would have seen that I stated that I had read this on another forum and had not researched as being true or accurate.

Just the ideal that this is out there does not shed a positive light on what the administration wants to do. As for her statements at Ft. Bragg, what would you expect her to say, something negative towards the military and their families. I have seen politicians come onto military bases and I have even been on subs where they have come down to visit, this includes both parties, and the biggest thing that I saw was, they said what we wanted to hear. We'll take care of you, your families will be taken care of, we'll fix your pay, etc... Then I realized, what else would they say, sorry guys, you are going to have to suck it up because were not going to be able to give you the raise we promised when we were discussing the budget. Heck no, they would have been crucified right there on the Mess Decks.

The bottom line in my opinion, if a person hasn't actually served, they cannot realize the sacrifices that the military man or woman sacrifices. As for the administration to take away benefits or money out of the pockets and they truly have no ideal, makes me not a happy person.

Here is a perfect example of what may/might/could happen. I received an email from my middle son concerning this issue. Even though he has 2.5 years left on his contract, he stated that if this was to be done he might as well get out. Why put up with the B.S. and still have to pay out of pocket. I can understand his reasoning at this time. He is floating around somewhere on the Pacific ocean right now, cannot talk to his fiance, family, etc... Having to work 24+ hours at times because equipment is broke, eating food that is prepared for over 5000 people for every meal. Yes that is the con of serving, but when you feel the military (i.e. government) is taking care of you, it is easy to overlook those cons.
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