Skip to content
BOL Conferences
Page 3 of 36 1 2 3 4 5 35 36
Thread Options
#1182327 - 05/13/09 03:28 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
RR Joker Offline
10K Club
RR Joker
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,654
The Swamp
We'll still supply a final as well, but presumably (based on research) there would be very little chance of it changing enough to require the additional wait. Sometimes it's hard to be sure until you get the final HUD and that can be right up to closing time!
_________________________
My opinion only. Not legal advice.

Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour

Return to Top
Lending Compliance
#1182345 - 05/13/09 03:37 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
Truffle Royale Offline

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,395
I know I'm coming late to the party but ???

Is the FINAL TIL the same as a corrected TIL? I thought the additional 3 days only applied if you had to give a revised TIL because the prelim changed and was now out of tolerance.

To (try to crazy ) clarify: ETIL 3 & 7 days running concurrently - Final TIL at table still needs additional 3 days??? What if it's a purchase? That means the Final TIL has to go out three days (or 3 + 3 if mailed) prior to closing?

Return to Top
#1182350 - 05/13/09 03:39 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published RR Joker
QCL Offline
Power Poster
QCL
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,259
NW IL
Did the definition of application change as well?

I see that it changed for RESPA, so do we incorporate this into the July 30 changes?


Page 68211 of the Fed Register:
...at the time of application, the loan originator will
decide what application information it needs to collect from a borrower, and which of that collected application information it will use, in order to issue a meaningful GFE. However, before
providing the GFE, the loan originator will be assumed to have collected at least the following six items of information: the borrower’s name, Social Security Number, and gross monthly income; the property address; an estimate of the value of the property; and the amount of the mortgage loan sought. The borrower’s Social Security Number would be collected for purposes of obtaining a credit report.

The final rule now defines "application" to include at least these six items of information..."
Last edited by QueenChop'dLiver; 05/13/09 03:40 PM.
Return to Top
#1182355 - 05/13/09 03:44 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published Truffle Royale
RR Joker Offline
10K Club
RR Joker
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,654
The Swamp
Originally Posted By: Truffle Royale
I know I'm coming late to the party but ???

Is the FINAL TIL the same as a corrected TIL? [color:#FF6666]Maybe, maybe not...more than likely..yes
I thought the additional 3 days only applied if you had to give a revised TIL because the prelim changed and was now out of tolerance. correct, but many of us routinely give Final's...even when not out of tolerance from early, but you wouldn't have to wait.

To (try to crazy ) clarify: ETIL 3 & 7 days running concurrently - Final TIL at table still needs additional 3 days??? Not if it's within tolerance of eTIL What if it's a purchase? That means the Final TIL has to go out three days (or 3 + 3 if mailed) prior to closing? [/color]
(Not if it's within tolerance
Last edited by RR joker; 05/13/09 03:46 PM.
_________________________
My opinion only. Not legal advice.

Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour

Return to Top
#1182361 - 05/13/09 03:48 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
Yada...Yada...Yada... Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 279
If we do a manufactured home loan (no land taken as collateral), then the early TIL will not be required since RESPA would not apply, correct?

If I read things correctly, the major change affecting home-only loans will be required escrow accounts if deemed a "higher priced" loan, even though they are not subject to RESPA.

Am I on the correct path?
_________________________
These Pretzels Are Making Me Thirsty!

Return to Top
#1182365 - 05/13/09 03:50 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published RR Joker
Truffle Royale Offline

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,395
We give ETIL and Final too. Assuming the seven days from ETIL to closing, if I train my processors to run tolerance tests if anything changes, we'll only have to worry about the days IF SOMETHING CHANGES.

btw, I haven't finished reading it all yet...what IS the tolerance? Did they change that too?

Return to Top
#1182368 - 05/13/09 03:51 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published Truffle Royale
QCL Offline
Power Poster
QCL
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,259
NW IL
Tolerance was not changed.

Return to Top
#1182371 - 05/13/09 03:52 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published QCL
QCL Offline
Power Poster
QCL
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,259
NW IL
I don't think....

§ 226.17 General disclosure requirements.
* * * * *
(f) Early disclosures. If disclosures required by this subpart are given before the date
of consummation of a transaction and a subsequent event makes them inaccurate, the
creditor shall disclose before consummation (subject to the provisions of § 226.19(a)(2)
and § 226.19(a)(5)(iii)):39
(1) Any changed term unless the term was based on an estimate in accordance with
§ 226.17(c)(2) and was labelled an estimate;
(2) All changed terms, if the annual percentage rate at the time of consummation
varies from the annual percentage rate disclosed earlier by more than 1/8 of 1 percentage
point in a regular transaction, or more than 1/4 of 1 percentage point in an irregular
transaction, as defined in § 226.22(a).

Return to Top
#1182382 - 05/13/09 04:00 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published Truffle Royale
ktac MITCH Offline
Diamond Poster
ktac MITCH
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,813
Giant side of TX
Originally Posted By: Truffle Royale
I know I'm coming late to the party but ???

Is the FINAL TIL the same as a corrected TIL? I thought the additional 3 days only applied if you had to give a revised TIL because the prelim changed and was now out of tolerance.

To (try to crazy ) clarify: ETIL 3 & 7 days running concurrently - Final TIL at table still needs additional 3 days??? What if it's a purchase? That means the Final TIL has to go out three days (or 3 + 3 if mailed) prior to closing?


Truffle I disagree - - - This is they way I read it.

1. Early TIL and GFE are generated ("delivered" according to the final rule means given or mailed) = start 7 Bus Day Clock

2. IF - during the process the APR on the early TIL becomes out of tolerance - you must redisclose another early TIL "Corrected" = start 3 Bus Day Clock . . . . . {IF this is mailed add another 3 Bus Days to assume the applicant "receives") I guess this was done to match up to the RESPA change that is coming dealing with the RESPA early disclosures.

Loan can be closed at the Later Of the # of days from #1 or #2.
IMO - A Final TIL given at closing is just additional disclosure / customer service, and because it is not a "Corrected" or "Re-disclosed" TIL required because of an out of tolerance APR, the 3 Bus Day waiting period is not applicable.
_________________________
My opinions are just that, and might be worth what you paid for them.

Return to Top
#1182391 - 05/13/09 04:09 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published ktac MITCH
Truffle Royale Offline

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,395
We don't disagree, Mitch. That's what I was trying to say too...I think.

Borrowers get three days to cool after receiving ETIL.
Gotta wait seven days from mailing ETIL to close. So technically, those 3 and 7 days are running together.
If fee changes bumping tolerance than 7 days goes by the wayside while you do the 3+3 for a new TIL.

Anyone considering doing any of this by email? It came up at the WBA conference I went to.

Return to Top
#1182393 - 05/13/09 04:10 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published ktac MITCH
swiggles Offline
Power Poster
swiggles
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,351
dtacMITCH....that's kinda how I was going to present this madness to lenders. Assuming that we're going to always give a final TIL and do not intend to test the prelim for tolerance:

  • Provide the prelim (mail or delivery) and determine the earliest possible closing date by counting the 7 business days.
  • Once the loan is approved, provide a final Disclosure Statement and depending on delivery method, count 3 or 6 days to determine a closing date.
  • The later of the above two dates will be the closing date for the loan.
_________________________
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......

Return to Top
#1182398 - 05/13/09 04:13 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
Truffle Royale Offline

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,395
swiggles, Mitch and I are giving the Final at the closing table withOUT additional three days. Sounds like you're making more work for yourself by sending it prior to closing if there are no changes. (Am I getting this right now??? crazy )

Return to Top
#1182399 - 05/13/09 04:13 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
QCL Offline
Power Poster
QCL
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,259
NW IL
Swiggles,
One change...delivery method does not matter.

The board stated that they will not adopt separate rules or presumptions for overnight shipping or electronic delivery. (page 10)

Return to Top
#1182422 - 05/13/09 04:23 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published QCL
swiggles Offline
Power Poster
swiggles
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,351
Originally Posted By: QueenChop'dLiver
Swiggles,
One change...delivery method does not matter.

The board stated that they will not adopt separate rules or presumptions for overnight shipping or electronic delivery. (page 10)


Right....I agree. Delivery method for the 7-day waiting period does not matter (I guess I was using the term "delivery" for everything other than "snail mail"). But it does for the 3-day waiting period if a corrected disclosure has to be provided.

Is that what you mean?
_________________________
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......

Return to Top
#1182434 - 05/13/09 04:27 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
Power Poster
swiggles
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,351
Originally Posted By: Truffle Royale
swiggles, Mitch and I are giving the Final at the closing table withOUT additional three days. Sounds like you're making more work for yourself by sending it prior to closing if there are no changes. (Am I getting this right now??? crazy )


I agree with you one hundred percent. However, come sit in my chair and be subject to my bank environment. I don't trust lenders, doc prep or anyone else with testing the prelim to make sure it's within tolerance and then to provide a corrected TIL if necessary.

But, a light bulb DID just now come on in my head. If we create the final TIL and the APR is virtally the same as the prelim, I suppose we could go with that and the lender would be free to close without waiting 3 days, but I'm, I'm.....I'm AFRAID! wink
_________________________
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......

Return to Top
#1182440 - 05/13/09 04:29 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published QCL
ktac MITCH Offline
Diamond Poster
ktac MITCH
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,813
Giant side of TX
QCL - correct that paragraph 1 on pg 10 indicates no matter if mailed / emailed / sent by courier other than USPS = the 3 additional days to assume the consumer receives the disclosure.

But, paragraph 2 indicats that a creditor can depend on evidence of delivery (proof of delivery by overnight, certified, etc)
But for me, why add more potential for confusion - just stick with the 3 additional days if it was not given in person
_________________________
My opinions are just that, and might be worth what you paid for them.

Return to Top
#1182461 - 05/13/09 04:41 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published ktac MITCH
QCL Offline
Power Poster
QCL
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,259
NW IL
Originally Posted By: ktacMITCH
QCL - correct that paragraph 1 on pg 10 indicates no matter if mailed / emailed / sent by courier other than USPS = the 3 additional days to assume the consumer receives the disclosure.

But, paragraph 2 indicats that a creditor can depend on evidence of delivery (proof of delivery by overnight, certified, etc)
But for me, why add more potential for confusion - just stick with the 3 additional days if it was not given in person


Swiggles, this is what I was talking about.

Return to Top
#1182542 - 05/13/09 05:22 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published QCL
Jae Offline
100 Club
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 128
Mid-Missouri
Would this scenario be correct?

Receive application on Monday June 1st, 2009

Mail Early disclosures on Tuesday June 2nd, 2009 = starts timing

First 3day requirement is up on Friday June 5th, 2009

Seven day requirement is up on Wednesday June 10th, 2009 (as long as there are no revisions to the early disclosures) the initial 3day and the seven days run concurrent; closing will take place on Wednesday June 10th 2009.

However, on Friday June 5th the early disclosures are revised and are mailed to the consumer = starts next 3 days, (consumer is considered to have received the disclosures on or before Tuesday June 9th, 2009 and another 3 day waiting period starts; closing may take place on Saturday June 13th or Monday15th, 2009.

Return to Top
#1182578 - 05/13/09 05:41 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published Jae
swiggles Offline
Power Poster
swiggles
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,351
Jae posted:

Would this scenario be correct?

Receive application on Monday June 1st, 2009

Mail Early disclosures on Tuesday June 2nd, 2009 = starts timing

First 3day requirement is up on Friday June 5th, 2009
I don't think you have to count this 3-days.....only if there is a re-disclosure due to inaccuracy.

Seven day requirement is up on Wednesday June 10th, 2009 (as long as there are no revisions to the early disclosures) the initial 3day and the seven days run concurrent; closing will take place on Wednesday June 10th 2009.
I counted seven days to be the 9th (saturday is a business day for the 7-day waiting period and closing can take place ON the 7th day).

However, on Friday June 5th the early disclosures are revised and are mailed to the consumer = starts next 3 days, (consumer is considered to have received the disclosures on or before Tuesday June 9th, 2009 and another 3 day waiting period starts; closing may take place on Saturday June 13th or Monday 15th, 2009.
If you mailed corrected disclosures on June 5th, you must count six days (saturday is a business day) allowing consummation on June 12th.

That's my take.......... eek
_________________________
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......

Return to Top
#1182582 - 05/13/09 05:44 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
Truffle Royale Offline

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,395
Keep in mind when you're counting your 7/3/6 days that altho the Reg defines business days, YOU have to be open to do business on whatever day your count ends. I think that's what's leading to the confusion in Swiggles response to Jae. It doesn't matter if you CAN close on Saturday the 12th if you're not open on that day.

Return to Top
#1182598 - 05/13/09 05:52 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
Power Poster
swiggles
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,351
Originally Posted By: Truffle Royale
Keep in mind when you're counting your 7/3/6 days that altho the Reg defines business days, YOU have to be open to do business on whatever day your count ends. I think that's what's leading to the confusion in Swiggles response to Jae. It doesn't matter if you CAN close on Saturday the 12th if you're not open on that day.


If I'm reading the Reg correctly....the 3 days to provide the Prelim is still determined by using the old "business day" definition (a business means any day that the creditor is open for substantially all of its business functions). But for the 7 day waiting period after providing the prelim and the 3 (or 6) day waiting period after re-disclosure, the term "business day" means all calendar days except Sundays and legal holidays.

Is that correct?
_________________________
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......

Return to Top
#1182620 - 05/13/09 06:06 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
Princess of Power Offline
Gold Star
Princess of Power
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 406
Napa, CA
"We use Laserpro for loan documents. Currently, our disclosure statement (above the sig line) states:
"I read and was given a completed copy of this Disclosure Statement on [date], prior to signing the Note." The [date] is hard coded into the document as the loan date. That's not going to work!"

You can turn off the date in Laser Pro

Return to Top
#1182628 - 05/13/09 06:15 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published swiggles
ahou Offline
Power Poster
ahou
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,094
That is correct, Swiggles.
_________________________
Opinions are my own and not of my employer.

Return to Top
#1182664 - 05/13/09 06:36 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published ahou
tcredle Offline
100 Club
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 136
A company that does our compliance audits e-mailed me with instructions and they said if the initial truth in lending is outside of tolerance and we must provide another truth in lending the Bank must wait until on or after the 3rd business day following the date the corrected initial truth in lending to consummate (close the loan)

They said nothing about 3 days + 3 days=6 days. Just 3 days and can close on or after the 3rd day on a corrected truth in lending

Return to Top
#1182678 - 05/13/09 06:43 PM Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published ahou
Truffle Royale Offline

10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,395
All I'm trying to say is that I think we're all on the same page with the definitions of business day. The difference in answers comes when you count out the days and the last day falls on a day your FI isn't open. You're not going to open for a closing on a Saturday just because that's the seventh day.

Return to Top
Page 3 of 36 1 2 3 4 5 35 36

Moderator:  Andy_Z