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#1198271 - 06/09/09 08:31 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Bobby Boucher
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but when he grew older and learned the definition of "circle" and "square"...i bet he wouldn't agree with what he said as a 2 yr old

can we really call what his perception of that drawing was a "truth"

i don't know...i've just confused myself anyway smile

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#1198286 - 06/09/09 08:40 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Miscuit
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Originally Posted By: Miscuit
but when he grew older and learned the definition of "circle" and "square"...i bet he wouldn't agree with what he said as a 2 yr old

can we really call what his perception of that drawing was a "truth"

i don't know...i've just confused myself anyway smile

To him, yes it was a truth. I was kind of trying to illustrate how perspective can influence how someone sees the truth, but also, and perhaps more important, that don't necessarily make it right.
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#1198290 - 06/09/09 08:42 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Bobby Boucher
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ok


back to the bushes now? laugh

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#1198291 - 06/09/09 08:44 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Miscuit
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Originally Posted By: Miscuit
but when he grew older and learned the definition of "circle" and "square"...i bet he wouldn't agree with what he said as a 2 yr old

can we really call what his perception of that drawing was a "truth"

i don't know...i've just confused myself anyway smile


OK maybe you took my words to mean that I am manipulating the information. Lets just say that four of the items he was given as successes I would say he didnt even do them. Three successes he did something that really didnt mean anything. Because of this, I am questioning the objectivity of the source.

Maybe I should have not been so nice.
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#1198294 - 06/09/09 08:47 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Miscuit
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Originally Posted By: Miscuit
ok


back to the bushes now? laugh


whistle
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#1198297 - 06/09/09 08:49 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Bobby Boucher
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/about/

This is put out by a newspaper. I would say after reading this its hardly scientific, nor is it really objective. That said I went through their home page and found articles bashing and supporting both sides of the political spectrum.
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#1198301 - 06/09/09 08:52 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Sound Tactic
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Originally Posted By: Green Tea
Originally Posted By: Miscuit
but when he grew older and learned the definition of "circle" and "square"...i bet he wouldn't agree with what he said as a 2 yr old

can we really call what his perception of that drawing was a "truth"

i don't know...i've just confused myself anyway smile


OK maybe you took my words to mean that I am manipulating the information. Lets just say that four of the items he was given as successes I would say he didnt even do them. Three successes he did something that really didnt mean anything. Because of this, I am questioning the objectivity of the source.

Maybe I should have not been so nice.


I'm sorry-come again? crazy
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#1198303 - 06/09/09 08:53 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Bobby Boucher
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Boucher
Originally Posted By: Miscuit
but when he grew older and learned the definition of "circle" and "square"...i bet he wouldn't agree with what he said as a 2 yr old

can we really call what his perception of that drawing was a "truth"

i don't know...i've just confused myself anyway smile

To him, yes it was a truth. I was kind of trying to illustrate how perspective can influence how someone sees the truth, but also, and perhaps more important, that don't necessarily make it right.


No, the TRUTH was, it was not a square. Just because someone thinks an apple is an orange doesn't make that apple an orange. It's still an apple, the person is simply ignorant of the truth.

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#1198326 - 06/09/09 09:07 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Sound Tactic
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Originally Posted By: Green Tea
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/about/

This is put out by a newspaper. I would say after reading this its hardly scientific, nor is it really objective. That said I went through their home page and found articles bashing and supporting both sides of the political spectrum.


Thanks for posting the about page, I was looking for it. Which reminded me, I really like the truth-O-Meters too, in addition to the promise tracking that I posted above.

Some of my favorites:

"If you actually took the number of Muslims [sic] Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world."
Barack Obama on Monday, June 1st, 2009 in interview with Canal Plus Television
Rated [Liar, liar] Pants on Fire

This one is interesting to me - I had thought that Steele was ranting and raving again - "President Obama will now own 60 percent of GM, and his union buddies will own almost 20 percent." Rated - True

Another good one:
CIA documents and Pelosi at odds
"We were not, I repeat, were not told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used." Rated - FALSE

And a Half-truth example is here:
Obama's "first call (as president) to any head of state was to Mahmoud Abbas, leader of Fatah party in the Palestinian territory."

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#1198341 - 06/09/09 09:15 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop QCL
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why has none of this ^^^^^^^ been considered newsworthy?
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#1198559 - 06/10/09 02:00 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Pale Rider
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The only thing news worthy is more bad news.

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#1198606 - 06/10/09 02:37 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop QCL
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Originally Posted By: B_F
Originally Posted By: Bobby Boucher
To him, yes it was a truth. I was kind of trying to illustrate how perspective can influence how someone sees the truth, but also, and perhaps more important, that don't necessarily make it right.


No, the TRUTH was, it was not a square. Just because someone thinks an apple is an orange doesn't make that apple an orange. It's still an apple, the person is simply ignorant of the truth.

mad B_F, so now you're calling my little boy ignorant!?! mad

(just kidding wink ) I think we all realize that it wasn't a square. I wasn't stating that someone's perspective changes THE TRUTH, but that perspective does impact one's perception of what is true. My point being that THE TRUTH should be black and white, but our various perspectives lead us to see in shades of grey - otherwise, I don't reckon we'd argue so much.

Originally Posted By: Bobby Boucher
Originally Posted By: Miscuit
so "truth" varies with perspective?

I believe so, at least that's what Ms. Sotomayor tells me...
^^^This is where the conversation began. I took Miscuit's comment to mean that she believed perspective had no place in determining what is true. I brought up Sotomayor's apparent belief that her perspective leads to better decisions, looking to start a discussion about how to reconcile those two ideas. Alas, it did not go that way and all I got out of it was the realization that my son was pretty stoopid when he was 2... frown
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#1198613 - 06/10/09 02:41 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop QCL
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
why has none of this ^^^^^^^ been considered newsworthy?
Originally Posted By: QueenChop'dLiver
The only thing news worthy is more bad news.

Unfortunately, I would consider the information above to be more bad news, yet it is still not considered newsworthy.
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#1198615 - 06/10/09 02:43 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Bobby Boucher
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AAHH- I've missed this smile
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#1198616 - 06/10/09 02:44 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Bobby Boucher
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Bobby...your son was not stupid at 2...he just had the mentality of a 2 yr old!

but I still think perspective has nothing to do with "the truth"

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#1198617 - 06/10/09 02:45 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Miscuit
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Ahhh... that could be said of so many... whistle
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#1198630 - 06/10/09 02:53 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop DeeQ
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are you two tag teaming today?

look, it's all blameable on Bush!
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#1198642 - 06/10/09 03:00 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Pale Rider
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Finally, he gets it! laugh
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#1198644 - 06/10/09 03:04 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Jo
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Originally Posted By: Moss81
It took 8 years to bring the U.S. to it's knees on W's watch, let's at least give the guy the rest of his term and then judge his performance.


Moss, where did ye go?

I didn't see your response to my (and others') questions.

Hello????
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#1198646 - 06/10/09 03:05 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop DeeQ
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Originally Posted By: Miscuit
Bobby...your son was not stupid at 2...he just had the mentality of a 2 yr old!

Like father, like son then?

Originally Posted By: Miscuit
but I still think perspective has nothing to do with "the truth"

And I still think that it shouldn't. But IMO there is a often times a difference between "the truth" and what we see to be true. Just for giggles, let's change the above quote slightly for a different situation to illustrate better (perhaps)...
Quote:
Bobby...your son was not stupid at 22...he just had the mentality of a liberal!
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#1198649 - 06/10/09 03:06 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop *nUnZeO*
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Originally Posted By: *nUnZeO*
AAHH- I've missed this smile

And this has missed you - where ya been?
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#1198650 - 06/10/09 03:07 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Miscuit
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Originally Posted By: Miscuit
but I still think perspective has nothing to do with "the truth"


I'm sorry. Usually I just read these but...Miscuit, you're joking, right? If not, where is this 'truth' of which you speak so that we all may know it and stop arguing about it? Perspective, ie, the way one is raised, their religion, education, etc, is all that anyone has to base 'the truth' on, isn't it?

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#1198659 - 06/10/09 03:15 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Truffle Royale
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But we've all learned, Truff, that the world is not black and white. There are many, many shades of gray.

Joe the Dem sees Obama's spending as Great; John the Pubbie thinks its horrible. Which is the truth? It's all in the way you look at it.



Bobby - whether they're 2 or 22 or 82, men always seem to have the mentality of a 2 year old wink
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#1198661 - 06/10/09 03:16 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Truffle Royale
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maybe i'm confusing "truth" with "fact"?

so the way you were raised, your religion, your education, etc. would lead you to a different "truth" as to what makes a square a square? (as in BF's explanation)

hmmmm...interesting

and no...i wasn't joking

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#1198670 - 06/10/09 03:20 PM Re: Obama's approval ratings continue to drop Miscuit
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Ok, so we're talking 'truth' vs 'fact'. Fact is a square is a square. Perspective (back to your core beliefs) influences whether you believe what BO is preaching is the truth or not. All I'm saying is I agree with the concept of perspective influencing what one believes to be the truth.

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