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#1221809 - 07/24/09 12:30 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,844
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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But, if we create more affordable options for health insurance, then more people can pay for coverage, and if more people are putting money into the system, wouldn't that help to reduce costs across the board? But the plan as proposed does not call for more people to pay for coverage, it calls for increased taxes so that insurance can be given to those who don't have it. So not only will I be paying over $7,000 per year to insure my family (current rates, company paying another $22,000), I will have increased taxes to pay for someone elses...makes me grrrrrr
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#1221821 - 07/24/09 12:42 PM
Re: Health Care
Retired DQ
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,844
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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well, with the increase in minimum wage today, I would hope so...
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#1222081 - 07/24/09 03:55 PM
Re: Health Care
HappyGilmore
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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But, if we create more affordable options for health insurance, then more people can pay for coverage, and if more people are putting money into the system, wouldn't that help to reduce costs across the board? But the plan as proposed does not call for more people to pay for coverage, it calls for increased taxes so that insurance can be given to those who don't have it. So not only will I be paying over $7,000 per year to insure my family (current rates, company paying another $22,000), I will have increased taxes to pay for someone elses...makes me grrrrrr I'm sorry, I just don't see where anyone has said that uninsured people are going to get it for free. What I keep hearing about is an effort to reallocate resources to create affordable coverage options so that more people can pay for their own insurance (or more employers provide it for their employees) - based on the assumption that health insurance is something people want and would be willing to pay for if they could (so it's not a mandate). The major tax issue I recall is the suggestion to help pay for the plan by limiting deductions for the wealthiest people - probably just one of several options being debated.
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#1222091 - 07/24/09 04:01 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,844
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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well, if everyone will be "buying" healthcare, why do we need a tax increase to fund it?
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#1222175 - 07/24/09 05:00 PM
Re: Health Care
Truffle Royale
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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I'm sorry, I just don't see where anyone has said that uninsured people are going to get it for free. You do realize that the reason the vast majority of these uninsured people are uninsured is because they're unemployed or cannot afford insurance. Yes. What I keep hearing about is an effort to reallocate resources reallocate what resources? If there are resources laying around to be reallocated, how about lowering my insurance premium? Seriously, if there are resources to reallocate, why the need for the huge tax increase? Reallocating subsidies to Medicare & Medicaid - money we're already paying, but not benefiting from. I have no idea what this "huge tax increase" is that you keep referring to - the suggestion to limit deductions for the wealthiest Americans certainly doesn't affect people like you and me. As far as needing the additional revenue, I can only imagine there would be some intention to expand existing services in order to improve quality. But really, who knows... to create affordable coverage options so that more people can pay for their own insurance (or more employers provide it for their employees) - based on the assumption that health insurance is something people want and would be willing to pay for if they could (so it's not a mandate). We're back to the need for people to have JOBS before they can deal with health insurance. How about putting health care on the back burner and letting smarter heads than ours have time to come up with a realistic health plan that is affordable for us as taxpayers now and 10 years from now. Focus on fixing the economy and getting the unemployment numbers down before you forge ahead with higher taxes for something that large numbers of Americans have voiced disapproval of. Sorry, you lost me - you want them to put health care on the back burner and also come up with a plan?
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1222243 - 07/24/09 06:04 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,844
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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I still don't understand why it will cost more money if everyone will be paying for it...
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#1222262 - 07/24/09 06:15 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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Joined: Oct 2005
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So, $1.5 trillion is the 1/3 they're currently debating how to cover? Perhaps we should just eliminate insurance altogether and we can just pay our doctors directly out of pocket for health care services? Of course, that would mean everyone currently working for the insurance industry would be unemployed...
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#1222290 - 07/24/09 06:31 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,844
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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as opposed to creating government healthcare that will put all the insurance companies out of business and ending with all the insurance employees unemployed??? end result is the same.
again I ask...why will we need to fund this with tax increases (or reductions in tax deductions) of $1.5 trillion if everyone will be paying? Something here is not adding up...
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#1222296 - 07/24/09 06:36 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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So, $1.5 trillion is the 1/3 they're currently debating how to cover? Perhaps we should just eliminate insurance altogether and we can just pay our doctors directly out of pocket for health care services? Of course, that would mean everyone currently working for the insurance industry would be unemployed... Or perhaps we stop the illusion that we can cover everyone for less money. Bottom line is covering everyone will cost more money, period. If as a society we agree to that, so be it, but to pretend that it will not cost more, and to convince people like yourself that we can do all these things without any negative consequences, is outrageous.
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#1222301 - 07/24/09 06:38 PM
Re: Health Care
HappyGilmore
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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as opposed to creating government healthcare that will put all the insurance companies out of business and ending with all the insurance employees unemployed??? end result is the same.
again I ask...why will we need to fund this with tax increases (or reductions in tax deductions) of $1.5 trillion if everyone will be paying? Something here is not adding up... Because that many more people will be getting medical services. What has been seen in other countries, and in Mass., is when people have insurance, they use medical services that they may foregone if they had to pay for it themselves. That is why it is critical insureds have some skin in the game. Small co-pays do not provide any insentive for the insured to shop for cheaper services or to forego services for minor ailments.
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#1222449 - 07/24/09 08:11 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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Joined: Jul 2003
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[quote=Becka Marr] Reallocating subsidies to Medicare & Medicaid - money we're already paying, but not benefiting from. Who's the 'we' that isn't benefitting? My mom who just had knee replacement that Medicare paid for? My autistic niece who gets some government $$? The anchor baby children of my former sil who get all their medical needs met for free? YOU may not be benefitting but you're not suppossed to be. You're banking money into Medicare against the day when you'll need it. And just like a bank uses your savings account to fund loans, the government uses your Medicare money to pay my mother's surgery bills.
I have no idea what this "huge tax increase" is that you keep referring to - the suggestion to limit deductions for the wealthiest Americans certainly doesn't affect people like you and me. As far as needing the additional revenue, I can only imagine there would be some intention to expand existing services in order to improve quality. But really, who knows... I think everyone else has addressed this fact already. Logic dictates taxes will go up...and various members of Congress have agreed that it will as well. We're back to the need for people to have JOBS before they can deal with health insurance. How about putting health care on the back burner and letting smarter heads than ours have time to come up with a realistic health plan that is affordable for us as taxpayers now and 10 years from now. Focus on fixing the economy and getting the unemployment numbers down before you forge ahead with higher taxes for something that large numbers of Americans have voiced disapproval of. Sorry, you lost me - you want them to put health care on the back burner and also come up with a plan? The 'back burner' concept means that people will keep working on cooking up a solution but it's not on the front burner where they have to watch it every moment and keep it at a full boil. Translated that means, yes, the Finance Committe should work with the Health Department and the INsurance industry to hammer out revisions to what already exists. This isn't anything that's going to happen in August, September or even this year. It's simply too complicated. However, a lot can be done to slow up and reverse job loss. THAT is what BO should be focusing on now. If people have jobs they have money and we can go back to your "assumption that health insurance is something people want and would be willing to pay for if they could"
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#1222456 - 07/24/09 08:16 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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I'm sorry, I just don't see where anyone has said that uninsured people are going to get it for free. You do realize that the reason the vast majority of these uninsured people are uninsured is because they're unemployed or cannot afford insurance. Yes. You know, I used to believe this, until the company I have worked for for over a decade and had EXCELLENT insurance just decided to cancel our group policy and leave us to all get individual insurance, not seeming to care that someone with rheumetoid arthritis cannot purchase individual insurance in our fine nation....
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#1222502 - 07/24/09 08:38 PM
Re: Health Care
B_F
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,844
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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my sister in law has rheumetoid arthritis and has no issues getting insurance on her own...try blue cross/blue shield
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#1222504 - 07/24/09 08:39 PM
Re: Health Care
B_F
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 18,989
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::places call to WHA-mbulance::
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#1222511 - 07/24/09 08:43 PM
Re: Health Care
Truffle Royale
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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Who's the 'we' that isn't benefitting? There are plenty of people pouring their money into health insurance (or work for employers who provide coverage) only to discover that it won't help them when they need it. My grandmother had insurance, but for one reason or another it didn't cover the in-home care she needed, so my aunt wound up paying out of pocket. I'm sure stuff like that happens all the time - people wind up in situations that either aren't covered at all, or only covered to a certain amount, so they're left to pay the bill or go bankrupt (which my grandmother certainly would've without my aunt's help). If people have jobs they have money and we can go back to your "assumption that health insurance is something people want and would be willing to pay for if they could" My first year or two out of college I didn't have health insurance. I was working - I went through several different jobs, none of which either provided me with insurance benefits or paid me enough to afford my own. So, I didn't go to the doctor unless it was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (like needing oral surgery to remove an impacted wisdom tooth) because I knew I would have to pay out of pocket. I might also add that my dad is self-employed. He's been the sole proprietor of his own business since I was in high school - works very hard, and has done very well. But he still depends on my mother's employment for health benefits.
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1222514 - 07/24/09 08:47 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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Who's the 'we' that isn't benefitting? There are plenty of people pouring their money into health insurance (or work for employers who provide coverage) only to discover that it won't help them when they need it. My grandmother had insurance, but for one reason or another it didn't cover the in-home care she needed, so my aunt wound up paying out of pocket. I'm sure stuff like that happens all the time - people wind up in situations that either aren't covered at all, or only covered to a certain amount, so they're left to pay the bill or go bankrupt. If people have jobs they have money and we can go back to your "assumption that health insurance is something people want and would be willing to pay for if they could" My first year or two out of college I didn't have health insurance. I was working - I went through several different jobs, none of which either provided me with insurance benefits or paid me enough to afford my own. So, I didn't go to the doctor unless it was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (like needing oral surgery to remove an impacted wisdom tooth) because I knew I would have to pay out of pocket. I might also add that my dad is self-employed. He's been the sole proprietor of his own business since I was in high school - works very hard, and has done very well. But he still depends on my mother's employment for health benefits. Bingo. It's amazing how when it is your own money (not you personally, you generally), you are more judicious in how it is spent. That is why the current plan increases costs 1.5 trillion dollars and why current health care costs increase on average 7% per year.
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#1222531 - 07/24/09 09:09 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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It's amazing how when it is your own money (not you personally, you generally), you are more judicious in how it is spent. Personally, I was lucky to be young enough and my body healthy enough so that it wasn't a big deal to forego check-ups and preventive care. The older we get, the less true that becomes; and I know several others have touched on the very important point that many people simply do not take care of themselves (smoking, poor exercise and/or dietary habits, etc.) in order to prevent the need for frequent visits to the doctor. And having reasonably good habits is still no guarantee that you won't wind up in the ER with some horrible virus...
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1222534 - 07/24/09 09:12 PM
Re: Health Care
Truffle Royale
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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The loopholes that some people crawl through while leaving your grandmother needing her daughter's help are what need to be closed.
Get insurance companies to provide realistically priced policies for self-employed people like your dad. TR, you do realize Obama is attempting to accomplish these things, don't you?
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1222550 - 07/24/09 09:26 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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10K Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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The loopholes that some people crawl through while leaving your grandmother needing her daughter's help are what need to be closed.
Get insurance companies to provide realistically priced policies for self-employed people like your dad. TR, you do realize Obama is attempting to accomplish these things, don't you? Bwahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa........dang, almost spit my soda through my nose....
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#1222593 - 07/24/09 10:21 PM
Re: Health Care
HappyGilmore
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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my sister in law has rheumetoid arthritis and has no issues getting insurance on her own...try blue cross/blue shield I did. I was denied outright.
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