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#1223038 - 07/27/09 09:06 PM
Re: Health Care
TB 12
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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Another concern I have heard Becka is that if there is a "public option" some employers may drop coverage knowing there is another option for its employees to fall back on, adding more burden to the system. This is something my company is talking about. 220 employees cost us about 30% over their salaries for insurance. If we only have to pay 8% payroll tax surcharge to not insure, cost wise the decision is a no brainer. But the President's public statements haven't mentioned anything about that, so there is no way the surcharge would be set low enough to encourage employers to dump coverage and push more onto government plan.
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#1223047 - 07/27/09 09:24 PM
Re: Health Care
TB 12
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Power Poster
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,841
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Another concern I have heard Becka is that if there is a "public option" some employers may drop coverage knowing there is another option for its employees to fall back on, adding more burden to the system. Exactly. Or the employee portion of the premium will skyrocket. My employer already uses pricing to discourage the people with families from including them on their policy. If the spouse of an employee has health insurance coverage available to them (doesn't matter what the quality of coverage is), not only does the employee have to pay the higher family premium, but an additional amount as well.
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#1223050 - 07/27/09 09:34 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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Becka, lets just agree to disagree Fair enough. fwiw, I don't disagree with the suggestion for people to share more of the cost out of pocket. In fact, my employer just announced that all employees will be paying a greater portion of our medical benefits before the end of the year. I'm not complaining: it sure beats getting laid off and losing them entirely.
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1223058 - 07/27/09 09:50 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 34,318
under the Lone Star
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Another concern I have heard Becka is that if there is a "public option" some employers may drop coverage knowing there is another option for its employees to fall back on, adding more burden to the system. Why don't employers just eliminate insurance benefits for employees now? It's not like the employee can't go purchase their own insurance from an existing company, right? companies doing this will be at a competitive disadvantage unless they increase the wages paid or offered by the cost of insurance offered by companies competing for employees.... company paid health insurance has been part of our compensation system since wage controls were placed by the federal govt. during WWII (I think I recall that correctly) and companies needed to incent workers to stay with them by providing health care.... later came retirement benefits at no cost to the employee from the largest employers....
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Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.
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#1223105 - 07/28/09 01:48 AM
Re: Health Care
straw
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10K Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,390
Cheeseheadland
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Another concern I have heard Becka is that if there is a "public option" some employers may drop coverage knowing there is another option for its employees to fall back on, adding more burden to the system. This is something my company is talking about. 220 employees cost us about 30% over their salaries for insurance. If we only have to pay 8% payroll tax surcharge to not insure, cost wise the decision is a no brainer. But the President's public statements haven't mentioned anything about that, so there is no way the surcharge would be set low enough to encourage employers to dump coverage and push more onto government plan. This is my concern as well... my company would save oodles by dropping the ocverage we have and simply paying the tax, and perhaps me a little more to purchase my own. There is no way an individual like myself could buy the same quality of care that my employer can provide me, at their price. You simply cannot compete with a program that will run at a loss. It would be simply a matter of time before most employer coverage is dropped, and the cost of a private plan is too high, thus the migration to the government plan begins, and the costs begint o spin out of control, as being the goverment, they can allow themselves to operate at a loss.
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#1223169 - 07/28/09 01:19 PM
Re: Health Care
Truffle Royale
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Platinum Poster
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 832
southeast
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That's why somehow, in addition to eliminating the Obamacare option, we as individuals or as various defined groups (e.g. by professional association, by employer, by neighborhood, etc.) need to somehow be able to cross state lines and shop around for whatever coverage suits us.
And, since the tendency of any insurer is going to be to want to attract the lowest-cost insured (younger, healthier), the combination of HSAs plus [hate to say it, but don't see a way around it] mandatory catastrophic insurance with high co-pay (to cover expensive chronic as well as acute conditions) seems like the best way to go.
As for our tendency to view ourselves as invincible, thereby avoiding all preventive tests? Good publicity about the relative costs of the test vs. the treatment should help.
And, I can't justify offering free care to illegal immigrants....
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From the end spring new beginnings. Pliny the Elder
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#1223240 - 07/28/09 02:22 PM
Re: Health Care
Phoenix
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Power Poster
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,259
NW IL
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I'll support whatever healthcare the Presidnet and Congress come up with that has them on the same plan as me...until then, it is a joke :::Stands and claps! ::: Their plan should be the litmus test.
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#1224105 - 07/29/09 04:30 PM
Re: Health Care
QCL
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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Probably common knowledge to most of us, but this caught my eye: What's most likely to bankrupt you:Harvard researchers say 62% of all personal bankruptcies in the US in 2007 were caused by health problems -- and 78% of those filers had insurance. Full story
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1224237 - 07/29/09 07:06 PM
Re: Health Care
Truffle Royale
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,858
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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I'll support whatever healthcare the President and Congress come up with that has them on the same plan as me...lead the way, boys, and we'll gladly follow...
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Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#1225084 - 07/30/09 06:12 PM
Re: Health Care
Truffle Royale
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 34,318
under the Lone Star
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end of life care will become an end of care issue....
just give 'em some pain pills until they die....
_________________________
Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.
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#1225145 - 07/30/09 06:50 PM
Re: Health Care
Pale Rider
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Power Poster
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,567
Ohio
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as opposed to how chronic illnesses are handled late in life now...
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#1225171 - 07/30/09 07:04 PM
Re: Health Care
Buccs
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 34,318
under the Lone Star
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as opposed to how chronic illnesses are handled late in life now... end of life decisions should be strictly between patients, families and doctor -- isn't this how it is now buccs? how is it where you live?
_________________________
Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.
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#1225173 - 07/30/09 07:04 PM
Re: Health Care
Buccs
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 18,989
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With the lights out, it's less dangerous.
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#1225186 - 07/30/09 07:09 PM
Re: Health Care
A_G
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,789
TX
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#1225217 - 07/30/09 07:24 PM
Re: Health Care
Pale Rider
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Power Poster
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,567
Ohio
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I agree with you. But I'm saying that the vast majority of patient care for end-of-life patients who have chronic illnesses are centered around pain management.
I was remarking that if that's how it supposedly is going to be it will not be any different that how things are now.
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#1225227 - 07/30/09 07:28 PM
Re: Health Care
Buccs
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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I agree with you. But I'm saying that the vast majority of patient care for end-of-life patients who have chronic illnesses are centered around pain management.
I was remarking that if that's how it supposedly is going to be it will not be any different that how things are now. When are end of life decisions made and by whom? That is what will change. For instance can a 100 year old woman get a pacemaker? Obama said she probably should have been given some pills instead of the procedure. Should be noted that woman is 105 today. This happened at one of the President's recent town halls.
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#1225251 - 07/30/09 07:47 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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Power Poster
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,567
Ohio
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And I don't disagree with that either. All I'm saying is that:
"the vast majority of patient care for end-of-life patients who have chronic illnesses are centered around pain management."
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#1225267 - 07/30/09 07:54 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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10K Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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When are end of life decisions made and by whom? That is what will change. For instance can a 100 year old woman get a pacemaker?.... But this is the question being posed.
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Giddy up.
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