For "no caost" loans when completing Block 2 of "Your credit or charge (points) for the specific interest rate chosen" on the new GFE, waht does "as well as" mean?

It says, "In the case of "no cost" loans where "no cost" encompasses third party fes AS WELL AS the upfront payment to the loan originator..."

Does "as well as" mean 3th party fees and upfront fees? Or does "as well as" mean 3rd party fees or upfront fees?

Basically, we don't do loan origination fees at all. Not that we "waive" them, but they are not an option. So is the Rule saying we have to have both to do the negative Line A or is it saying if we have one ot the other we have to do the negative Line A? Are we some how exempt from having to do negative Line A becuase no origination fees apply to us?

Thanks for the help in advance!

Does anyone know? Thanks...