Ken - thanks for the information. You are right the model doesn't say "fifth". We have inserted this as the number of days that we may hold up too. So based on what you said - that after everything is local the most this could be is 7 - then if we are okay with 5 - than we shouldn't have to make any changes to our funds availability.

Floats and suits sound like a scary combo. Our docs say "Int. begins to accure no later than when we receive credit on noncash items. Sounds OK and has nothing to do with holds...right?

But somewhere in your processing system you have plugged in days for float. Since we image our cash letter get to the Federal Reserve a lot earlier and we are getting same day credit. So we are thinking that are float needs to be set to 0 also and give the customer credit the same day of deposit.

Correct -- it has nothing to do with holds. However, check deposits aren't non-cash items. Do your disclosures say anything about when interest begins to accrue on deposited checks? Actually, there is not a requirement that you disclose your interest payment policy unless you are a credit union subject to §229.14(b).

John,

What about?

203.4(b)(3)(iii) When interest begins to accrue. A statement of when interest begins to accrue on noncash deposits.

Checks are non-cash deposits under Reg. DD.

Thank you again.

Your disclosure would still be compliant, that's correct. However, you are leaving 2 days of holds "on the table;" i.e. you are not taking full advantage of your alternatives. if that's the way your disclosure reads now, that's the tack your bank has always taken.

Yes, Randy. 230.4 does require that statement in the disclosures. Something about forest and trees comes to mind. I was focused on Reg CC alone, and that was wrong to do.

John, Randy & Queen - thank you for your input on float - confirms my thoughts.

With the changes in Reg CC, depending on the type of check that is deposited, funds may not be available until the second business day after the day of the deposit. We've already had our signage changed and Account brochures. What if we have a customer that brings in a check and a hold is placed on the 28th and released on the 30th. At 4:01 on the 30th the bank is notified the check is no good but the money is already taken from the account. The bank is out the money! What can we do to prevent this in the future?

Send the item for collection.

The same thing you've done for years, particularly for local checks. The two-day limit has always been very tight in some areas of the country, because it often took longer for the check to make the circuit from depositary bank to Fed to paying bank and back again. The problem (or challenge, if you prefer) is that the risk is now greater that you won't hear about a bounced check in time, particular those few that you accept from across the country. Even image processing hasn't yet wrung all the delays out of the system, and the occasions when same day presentment is possible are very few and far between.

Thanks for the help!

For disclosing...I think it's one per relationship? (if customer has multiple deposit accounts). Or do I send the notice to every deposit account on my books and customers may receive duplicate notices?

Yikes! My vendor is pushing for me to give her a quantity that I need for the notice, but it's really expensive!! Might just send my own.

229.15(c) Multiple accounts and multiple account holders. A bank need not give multiple disclosures to a customer that holds multiple accounts if the accounts are subject to the same availability policies. Similarly, a bank need not give separate disclosures to each customer on a jointly held account.


Give due consideration to leaving your vendor out of it and using statement messages instead. This isn't rocket science. If it were, your vendor would be no help at all.

As a test, without quoting the reg above, ask your vendor's sales representative the same question.

But in regards to the c-3 notice wouldn't the last line be deleted?

Funds from local checks will be available on the date no later than the ninth day business day after the day of your deposit. Funds from nonlocal checks will be available on the date no later than the ninth day business day after the day of your deposit.

What the last line of C - 3 (the section describing the new accounts hold) actually says is:

Funds from all other check deposits will be available on the (number) business day after the day of your deposit.

One of your fellow employees, probably long gone by now, must have plugged in that reference to "local," probably with no comprehension whatsoever as to its effect. As the model form was written, the (number) applies to the holds on local and nonlocal checks alike.

...as long as your predecessors did not mess around with the model language.

Thanks Ken, I see that now. So should the (number) be 9 or 7?

It can be anything you like; you can be completely arbitrary. (Keep in mind that the account is only "new" for 30 days.)

Reading all of this is more confusing than the actual changes. Just simply, is this how it is going to be?


We currently do:
Case by case holds-local checks avail by 2nd business day, non local by 5th

Exception holds-local checks avail by 7th business day, non local by 11th

New account holds-available by 9th business day


After final consolidation:
Case by case holds-funds avail by 2nd business day

Exception holds-funds avail by 7th business day

New account holds-no change

This is how I'm taking it brainOverload.

I need help in regards to Andy's hold calculator. If I accept a deposit on Thursday and place a case-by-case hold, Andy's calculator says it will be available on Monday. So does that mean the day of deposit counts as day 1 of a 2 hold? Not much difference than next day availablity in my mind.

Maybe look at it this way:

If you have next day availablity then the funds should be available on Friday right, with a case-by-case hold currently on a local check, you can hold the funds one additional business day (which would be the day they would have originally been available) therefore the funds will be now be available on Monday.

I guess, but it doesn't seem "fair" that we are already giving them $100 next day availablity and we only get to hold the remainder 1 additional day. Seems to me the "net" balance should be held Friday and Monday for availablity on Tuesday...

I have had to learn to look past what is not fair for the Bank because most of the regs are all about the customer or consumer. You can't fight it just go with the flow. Try to remember that it is not a "2 day" hold...it is 2nd day availability. The key word there is availability. SORRY!