I'll try to make this long story short without omitting too many details....I just need to see the views of others on this topic.

My son has a 3 year old daughter. He and the mother were never married. She broke off the engagement 2 weeks before the wedding.

Three months after that she told me that the baby may not have been my son's child. A paternity test was performed. The baby is his. His name didn't appear on the birth certificate nor the baptismal certificate. She does not carry his last name. The mother claims that my son is adopted, so his last name is not actually his last name.

She and my son began to see each other again once the baby was born. They agreed that $300/mo would be paid for child support. She wanted things done outside of court. She had a drug related background and was afraid that we would bring that up if we went to court.....(only once everything was over did I realize her concerns)

My husband, in my opinion, overstepped his boundries at the baptismal celebration (which was held at our home) when he cornered the mother to find out why she was forbidding my son's name to be placed on either certificates. An arguement took place between my husband, the girl and the girl's mother, though he said he was not arguing, he merely wanted to know. But, I know that he was very angry and I can imagine his tone of voice. When the rest of the guest and I realized what was going on, the girl was storming through the house, shouting that we would never see the baby again. (Up until that point, she had been allowing her to spend one night on the weekends with us). She demanded that her relatives and friends leave our house with her. I tried to reason with her, but her mother would not have any part of it. They left. Needless to say, the rest of the day was a disaster.

My son sought and was awarded joint custody with visitation every other weekend, but only after a very heartbreaking battle. The mother felt that he didn't know anything about a baby, so he was not allowed to pick the child up, nor to be alone with her.He was humiliated on the stand. The attorney asking him about feedings and formula and other things he couldn't know because he didn't live with her......At that time, my son lived with us. Anyway, when it was all said and done, my husband and I would pick her up and bring her home. At those times, we were glared at and told that the baby better not be one minute late or she have us picked up for kidnapping. This was the most awful time.

However, over time things got a little better. The mother decided that we shouldn't argue. Her mom was not happy with that situation, but it didn't seem to matter to the girl.

My son has now married another girl. (Which is a story in itself). The mother then had court papers drawn up saying that the child would not get to sleep at their house until she was 3 years old and that his wife would never be allowed to be alone with her. She even threatened the bride to be....physically threatened. Now that my son has another daughter, the older child's mother has decided that we should see her much more. My son's name was placed on the birth certificate, the baptismal certificate and the child's last name was changed to my son's last name..at my son's expense. She now comes to our home every Wednesday for the night, every Monday for the afternoon and every other weekend. My son comes to our house to see her....................sometimes...usually when I rant and rave.....

That is the problem. As I type this I am trying not to cry. But, he just doesn't seem to care about this child. She doesn't realize it yet. She's too young. She only knows our house and is very content with that. But, I can't seem to make my son understand that one day, she will realize the difference that he makes between her and her step sister. I've explained that one day he will have to answer to her. That doesn't seem to bother him....he shruggs it off. I don't know what else to do.

Now, he works in law enforcement and so does this mother. In fact, they work some of the same shifts. She has been telling me that she would like them to get back together. She tells him that his wife is crazy and that he needs to lose her......and take her baby away.....

I've told her that she needs to find someone else. She said that he is the "father of my baby and no one will take his place". He has had enough trouble with her and has enough trouble with his wife...he doesn't need this......

I know that this has been a long hard road for all of us. We paid for the entire wedding, including wedding dress, that didn't take place. We bought all of her maturnity clothes. She didn't put his name on the birth certificate, but you can't if you are not sure of the father. She didn't put his name on the baptismal certificate, but you can't if it is not on the birth certificate. She tried not to go to court, but I think she was just afraid that we would try to take that baby from her. She tried to keep him from the child, but again, she was having to go to court. Yes and now she is still keeping him from the child......And I know that because of that he didn't get to bond with that child like he has with his second child.....but...I don't think that excuses him.

Am I being too involved.......

I have no advice to give, but I feel truly sorry for you and your grand-daughter. You just give that little girl all the love you have.

Yeah, I don't know what to say, but I don't think you are being too involved. Seems to me that you are the only stability for that child right now. God Bless you for that.

007-I feel for you.I have been on both your son's side and your side of things in my life. If we had to die for our children, we would, but they won't realize that until they have children of their own that they would die for. By then we're already on our way out. You're doing the right thing right now, which is the best you can. Keep your love and involvement in your grandaughter's life constant. That will always be reassuring and comforting to her through the rest of her life. And it leaves the door open for your son to step in when he gets his head out of his a**. Give that sweet thing an extra squeeze next Monday from all of us out here that are rooting for you. Note: Tell the mother, kindly but firmly, that it makes you uncomfortable when she wants to talk about your son, his new wife and second child. Just as you would not talk about her out of respect for her. (say it even if you choke on every word). Good luck.

007 - I feel for you and I echo some of the sentiments that have already been stated. You give that baby all the love you can. I am a single parent, and have had some difficulties with the father, although not to the extent that you have described. My parents realize that the father is not as involved as he could be with my child and they have an amazing relationship with my six year old, especially my dad. (They are buddies!!) I pray for the best in this situation and that God will give you the strength you need to continue on.

Is the mother providing a good environment for the child at this time? If yes, your son's involvement, or lack of involvement, is not an issue for you to be directly concerned with. You are lucky to have the opportunity to spend time with the child as your grandchild and within that role it appears that you are doing a fine job. Just let the other players live their lifes as they see fit and stop the ranting.

As another "adoptee" out here...I ditto what Elena says.

007 - good luck and keep on doing what you are doing. It is hard not to be frustrated by your son, but he may come around some day -- hopefully sooner than later! You can be so influential on this child's chaotic life -- even if it turns out to be 1 afternoon a month! Besides unconditional love and acceptance of her, You can be the role model of morals, values, good grooming, courtesy, a clean house, somehow who helps others,picks up trash in the street, believes in no drugs, smoking, etc. You can be the one who emphasizes self-reliance and responsibility and education and peaceful life. This girl may not get it anywhere else and you can't do too much about that. But you can be the stable role model and always there for her to hear her problmes and listen and love her. That's so much!

Our granddaughter's mother is still living with her mother, along with two other sisters who have each had a child and ditched the fathers. Now the mother seems to have staightened up her act and appears to be trying to improve herself financially. To the best of our knowledge, our granddaughter is well taken care of. Of course there are things that I am not satisfied with and I probably never will be satisfied with everything. I feel that I need to speak to the mother about something.....which believe me, will be extremely hard to do because of the probable backlash, but I simply must.

This past weekend, my granddaughter was being a three year old. She was and had been whining about everything that didn't go her way. So, I picked her up and said, "Ok peanut, let's not be a pain". I could have choked when she said, "Gannie, are I a pain in the a#%." If you could have seen her expression. She was tapping her little fingers on her chest and really wanted to know. I was shocked, first that she even said a#% and secondly that someone had the nerve to say it to her such a thing....All I could say was of course not and I kissed her. Then I asked her who told her that and she said "Nannie".
(Oh, and before I go any further, after about 20 minutes she said "Gannie, I not a peanut, I a girl..a big girl now".)
Well, to complete my story, this "Nannie" (her mother's sister) has also called her a "heifer". It was when we brought her home on Sunday evening. She is never ready to go home. The routine is she stands by the door, screaming our names and cries. We walk back and forth from our car to the door to "kiss her one more time". After we did this at least 3 times, and I was walking away, the Nannie, as she was closing the door, called out the our granddaughter's mother and said "Sue your little heifer's here". Now, look I want to believe that she doesn't mean anything by it. I don't want to pretend that I am perfect, but that child's self esteem will be ruined if they aren't careful. I should have turned right around right then and there to confront Nannie, but these people are very difficult to get along with. Yet I will have to talk to the mother.

I do want to thank all of you who have sent such encouraging messages to me. It has meant a great deal. I hope that you are right, one day my son may change...I just hope for his sake it isn't too late. However, I truly believe as some poster has said, I need to just do what I can for my granddaughter and let the others do as they will. Deep in my heart, I know that I can't be all things to all people.

It sounds like the mother's family doesn't completely have their act together. Maybe the mother of your granddaughter needs some self esteem building too. Not only could you be helping your granddaughter but also help her mom become a better, self sufficient person. Praise her for her accomplishments. Suggest finding a place for her and your granddaughter to share together...just the two of them.

No matter what you do... keeping giving this little girl all the love you possibly can. The hugs, the comfort, the stability you are offering her will be with her forever. It is hard but sometimes you may just have to put up with some of the crap that is going on...but save the relationship with your granddaughter. That is the most important one to keep.

Good luck...sounds like a very difficult situation. Hang in there.