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#1352673 - 03/04/10 09:18 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
ahou
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Power Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,568
New Jersey
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[quote=ahou]The credit in block 2 is -100. In a partial cost loan, a 3rd party fee we are paying increased $50 on the HUD-1. Don't we also increase the credit on line 802 to -150 on the HUD-1 and show the increase as -150 on the comparison chart? This is the answer I got from HUD: Block 2 Box 2 is for credits for the rate quoted not 3rd party credits. The HUD-1 in the 200’s is where the credit goes. Quite frankly, the person at HUD who told you that is wrong. His or her answer contradicts the 1/28/2010 FAQS. Q&A 4 on page 27, and Q&A 3 on page 44, BOTH refer to third party fees and costs. Page 27 is specificaly discussing Block 2 of the GFE, and page 44 is discussing lines in the 800 series.
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#1352679 - 03/04/10 09:20 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
MarieR
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Gold Star
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 318
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I did get an answer from HUD and here it is:
"Only the premium that is retained by the agent and underwriter are disclosed in Lines 1107 and 1108. If the state interprets premium tax as title insurance, it would be part of Line 1103 and 1104 and only itemized if required by state law or a governmental loan program. If the state does not interpret premium tax as title insurance it may be listed on a blank line in the 1100 series."
For us it is part of the title insurance so we do not itemize it so the breakdown does not always match the total premium amount.
Thanks. Does this mean you're putting it in 1103 and 1104 and because of this 1104 doesn't match the sum of 1107 + 1108?
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#1352686 - 03/04/10 09:23 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
ahou
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
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[quote=ahou]The credit in block 2 is -100. In a partial cost loan, a 3rd party fee we are paying increased $50 on the HUD-1. Don't we also increase the credit on line 802 to -150 on the HUD-1 and show the increase as -150 on the comparison chart? This is the answer I got from HUD: Block 2 Box 2 is for credits for the rate quoted not 3rd party credits. The HUD-1 in the 200’s is where the credit goes. I'm confused more than ever. All I want to know is how to disclose the credit in line 802 and on pg 3 on the HUD-1 when a 3rd fee we are paying in a partial cost loan increases (is more than stated on the GFE). Is he saying I need to leave the cr on the HUD-1 the same as the GFE and put a cr on pg 1? ahou, HUD has stumbled all overthemselves a million times by now...several times they have flat out said that you can't change block 1, so you put it in 2...nothing to do with the rate...yada, yada. SO there is even a Q&A that address lender credits for any part of 801 PLUS 3rd party fees will be shown in Block 2. SO...in your situation, I would do this: Page 3 GFE HUD -100 -150 HUD page 200 section: $50 lender credit tolerance cure HUD line 802 -100 At least by golly I think that's how I'd do it!
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#1352692 - 03/04/10 09:27 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
Will B
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
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I did get an answer from HUD and here it is:
"Only the premium that is retained by the agent and underwriter are disclosed in Lines 1107 and 1108. If the state interprets premium tax as title insurance, it would be part of Line 1103 and 1104 and only itemized if required by state law or a governmental loan program. If the state does not interpret premium tax as title insurance it may be listed on a blank line in the 1100 series."
For us it is part of the title insurance so we do not itemize it so the breakdown does not always match the total premium amount.
Thanks. Does this mean you're putting it in 1103 and 1104 and because of this 1104 doesn't match the sum of 1107 + 1108? Will, I'm really not trying to answser your question, BUT, I can tell you I hve yet to see a title insurance section actually add up...there's something very weird about those numbers. I choose to not care!
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#1352713 - 03/04/10 09:39 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
RR Joker
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 614
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I did get an answer from HUD and here it is:
"Only the premium that is retained by the agent and underwriter are disclosed in Lines 1107 and 1108. If the state interprets premium tax as title insurance, it would be part of Line 1103 and 1104 and only itemized if required by state law or a governmental loan program. If the state does not interpret premium tax as title insurance it may be listed on a blank line in the 1100 series."
For us it is part of the title insurance so we do not itemize it so the breakdown does not always match the total premium amount.
Thanks. Does this mean you're putting it in 1103 and 1104 and because of this 1104 doesn't match the sum of 1107 + 1108? Will, I'm really not trying to answser your question, BUT, I can tell you I hve yet to see a title insurance section actually add up...there's something very weird about those numbers. I choose to not care! Will B- that is correct Joker - I am almost beginning not to care about much on the HUD - they have just about wore me down.
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#1352780 - 03/04/10 10:26 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
KimD
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,763
Central City, NE
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Q: Borrower makes application with Lender on their online mortgage system. Borrower receives the GFE at that time of the online application showing that an estimate for a survey will be $600.00 in the “Required Services that you can shop for”. A provider list is given to the borrower at time of application. The sales contract states that the seller is to furnish the surveyor to the borrower. The seller goes out and purchases the survey from a surveyor on the Lender Provider List (without the lenders knowledge) and pays for it prior to closing. Is the cost of the survey shown on the HUD I under Line #1301 as (POCS)?
In other words does seller paid items that are paid outside of the closing go on the HUD I Statement?? Good one. I originally answered this way: Since the survey was required by the lender and listed on the GFE, it must be listed in the borrower's column of the HUD-1. A credit to the borrower would be listed in the 200s and the fee would be listed as POC (Seller) in the 500s (no $ amount listed in the seller's column since they already paid for it. But then I realized this wouldn't balance. Where would the borrower's credit come from? I think this is another one that HUD didn't think about when they wrote this stupid reg. So I think the only way to do it is: List the fee in the 1300s as "POC (Seller).
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#1352871 - 03/05/10 01:02 AM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
DD Regs
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,132
Somewhere in the middle
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Two Quick questions.
Construction inspection fees on HUD
1. They go on line 808 but are NOT included in the 801 total? If they are performed by the appraiser or other third party, correct. They are a "required provider"
2. The inspection fees are not a FC and therefore not included in the APR per 226.4(c)(7)(iv)? So long as they are done prior to closing...yes. If they are done after closing, they are.
Thanks
RR, Thanks for the quick response. On question 1, yes these are construction inspection performed by our required appraiser. So, sorry to be dumb, but does this get included in the 801 total, or should these go elsewhere, in the 1300s? OK, I think I have this, they go on line 808 in the borrowers column, not outside the columns and totaled into 801. And since you close on the loan, have draw, inspection, draw inspection, etc. these would be FCs and be part of APR? I don't see how these can be before a closing on a loan, they are before the closing on the perm finance.
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#1353022 - 03/05/10 03:14 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
DD Regs
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
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That's how we would do it. The Z exemption only covers inspection fees (say, a final inspection) if they are done before the loan closes.
IF we have construction inspsections, we include them in the ppfc.
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Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour
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#1353472 - 03/05/10 10:10 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
RR Joker
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Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 90
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Can the closing company change the numbers on page 3 of the HUD, (where it details what was listed on the GFE vs. the HUD) to something other than what the bank listed on teh actual GFE?
For example: we listed the title service as $690 and owner's as $445 but on pg 3 of HUD they listed title service as $515 and $620 under the GFE section.
When I called them about this they said that they had to do that becuase the seller traditionally pays the for the owners part of the title work and they needed to adjust our numbers by $115 in order to show that the seller was paying for all of the buyers title work.
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#1353614 - 03/08/10 02:34 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
Compli123
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
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tHEY can't just change what was quoted on the GFE...that's why there's a HUD part to compare to!
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My opinion only. Not legal advice.
Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour
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#1353621 - 03/08/10 02:51 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
Compli123
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,400
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Further, the part that the seller was paying should be shown as a credit on page one of the HUD in order to keep the numbers balanced. I'm getting sick and tired of title companies telling banks that it HAS to be this way. Hey...they work for the banks, not vice versa! Not to mention what is fast becoming the consomate pita...my software won't let me do it that way. THEN GET IT FIXED! Why do people think software is the be all and end all??!! Now that I've got that off my chest, the week can only get better...right? 
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#1353679 - 03/08/10 04:05 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
Truffle Royale
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10K Club
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,392
Curled up by the fire...
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Has anyone put together an example list for changed circumstances? We're working on examples for our staff and thought I would ask.
Thanks!!
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#1353741 - 03/08/10 04:59 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
RR Joker
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100 Club
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 153
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I have a question. If an employer charges a fee to verify employment, as some large employers do, how is that fee disclosed? It was not originally disclosed on the GFE because we don't have many employers in our area that charge a fee. Are we now permitted to show this fee in on a revised GFE or is this a cost that the bank must incur?
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#1353747 - 03/08/10 05:03 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
small town girl
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100 Club
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 153
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forgot to ask --- We have a list of appraisers that the borrower can choose from or "shop from". Are we supposed to have a list for attorneys and title companies also?
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#1353753 - 03/08/10 05:05 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
small town girl
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
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I really really hope you don't allow your borrower's to pick an appraiser...that would be illegal.
You do need a list for any other required services, unless you require a specific servicer.
Last edited by RR joker; 03/08/10 05:06 PM.
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#1353762 - 03/08/10 05:08 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
small town girl
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,392
Curled up by the fire...
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I'm thinking the employer fee wouldn't go on your GFE? Just the HUD to be passed on to the borrower.
If you allow your borrower to shop, list those services in block 3 and give them the SSPL with at least one provider for each shoppable service.
You do not have to give them a list but if you don't, you are bound to the tolerances.
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#1353764 - 03/08/10 05:10 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
Mrs. Rizzo
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Posts: 10,392
Curled up by the fire...
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And RR is right...the borrower may not choose their appraiser. See HVCC rules.
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#1353765 - 03/08/10 05:10 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
small town girl
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Posts: 17,400
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I'm sure I posted this before but here it is again with regard to employment verification fees. Lots of big companies around here use The Work Number. From HUD - The Work Number would be considered a changed circumstance and therefore this would be a Block 3 item on the GFE if this was not known at the time of issuing the GFE.
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#1353766 - 03/08/10 05:12 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
small town girl
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
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I have a question. If an employer charges a fee to verify employment, as some large employers do, how is that fee disclosed? It was not originally disclosed on the GFE because we don't have many employers in our area that charge a fee. Are we now permitted to show this fee in on a revised GFE or is this a cost that the bank must incur?
I would consider that a block 3 fee (required provider) and if it wasn't known at application that you would incur a charge, then you would, IMO, have a changed circumstance and so long as you redisclose within 3 days...you can change that one thing.
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Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour
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#1353815 - 03/08/10 06:09 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
RR Joker
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100 Club
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 153
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Sorry - we used to use only a couple of appraisal companies unless the borrower had a preference. We do not allow that anymore. We have an approved list that a non-loan officer picks the appraiser from. They just go down the list and pick the next name on the list.
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#1354001 - 03/08/10 09:14 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
RR Joker
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,533
Bloomington, IN
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I have a question. If an employer charges a fee to verify employment, as some large employers do, how is that fee disclosed? It was not originally disclosed on the GFE because we don't have many employers in our area that charge a fee. Are we now permitted to show this fee in on a revised GFE or is this a cost that the bank must incur?
I would consider that a block 3 fee (required provider) and if it wasn't known at application that you would incur a charge, then you would, IMO, have a changed circumstance and so long as you redisclose within 3 days...you can change that one thing. I think that "verification" fee would be part of the origination charges.
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The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.
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#1354003 - 03/08/10 09:16 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
Dan Persfull
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Posts: 20,656
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YOu would think that...but it only happens in certain circumstances. I've had another discussions regarding a similar situation where you have to call "the work number" for large companies...it's a "required provider" and because you don't generally know you'll have to use it...it should qualify for a CC.
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Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour
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#1354422 - 03/09/10 05:29 PM
Re: RESPA changes 1-1-10
RR Joker
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,392
Curled up by the fire...
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Just curious...
Is anyone NOT counting the YSP being earned on a loan for the points and fees test?
For example, if the broker chooses not to keep all of the YSP on a loan, are you still using the total amount in your calculation or only the portion the broker is retaining?
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