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#1442962 - 09/14/10 09:01 PM Estate account activity
RMH Offline
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We have an Estate account opened in April where the majority of the activity has been ATM w/d's at a local casino. Also, the Executrix opened a personal account in August with a large deposit which was a transfer from the Estate account.

Has anyone seen this type of activity? Any info. or feedback is greatly appreciated.

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#1442979 - 09/14/10 09:33 PM Re: Estate account activity RMH
kw004h Offline
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Why would an Estate account need an ATM card to begin with?

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#1443024 - 09/15/10 01:25 AM Re: Estate account activity kw004h
rlcarey Offline
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I would file a SAR and inform the court that appointed the executrix.
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#1443053 - 09/15/10 12:27 PM Re: Estate account activity rlcarey
John Burnett Offline
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Jumping back to kw004h's comment, I'd also review your bank's new accounts/card issuing practices. Issuing a debit or ATM card on an estate account just doesn't seem to be a normal practice.
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#1443057 - 09/15/10 12:33 PM Re: Estate account activity John Burnett
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I agree. Why would an executor need cash from an estate? As an executor you do have to account for what you have disbursed, at least here in PA. Are there other heirs? They might be interested in this.

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#1443130 - 09/15/10 01:47 PM Re: Estate account activity John Burnett
RMH Offline
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Thanks to everyone for your responses. It appears that the Executrix is the widow of the deceased. If we filed a SAR, what would we check-off as the reason for filing?

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#1443180 - 09/15/10 03:03 PM Re: Estate account activity RMH
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Well, then, it is probably her money. Why did she even bother to open the estate account? I don't think a SAR would be necessary if she is the widow and spending her own money. I still would have to question the policy of giving an executor an ATM/debit card.

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#1443757 - 09/16/10 01:33 PM Re: Estate account activity Ready to Retire
Georgia Plum
Unregistered

Even if she is the sole heir, the estate has to be probated before she is entitled to it and the monies would have to be accounted for in an estate account.

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#1443812 - 09/16/10 02:10 PM Re: Estate account activity
Mary Beth Guard Offline
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George Plum is correct. Additionally, even as the sole heir, the money is not necessarily hers. Legitimate claims against the estate must be paid, as well as the expenses of the probate, before heirs receive anything.

Just because someone is a widow (or daughter, son, widower, parent) of a decedent doesn't mean they will inherit from them. The individual may have left a will that bequeaths his estate to charity, or a kind neighbor, or any number of other beneficiaries. Other than a statutory forced share that some states impose, individuals are free to disregard/disinherit whomever they choose.

It's not her money. She can't treat the estate funds as if it's a joint account between her and her dead husband.

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#1443858 - 09/16/10 02:36 PM Re: Estate account activity Mary Beth Guard
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This just caught me as somewhat sad. The kinds of scams people play these days. I read in the paper the other day about some lawyer in the Chicago area who would coax people on their death bed into making him their executor, and do as he pleased with these poor people's estates - or something like that.

I plan on solving that problem by spending every last dime I have before I go!

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#1444034 - 09/16/10 04:49 PM Re: Estate account activity OldTeller
RMH Offline
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Thanks to all for the input. We are looking into why the ATM card was issued- that is not our usual procedure.

Mary Beth, do you think we should file a SAR? If so, what would we check for the type of suspicious activity? Thank you.

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#1444745 - 09/17/10 03:52 PM Re: Estate account activity RMH
RMH Offline
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Bump- Does anyone know if this would be a mandatory SAR filing and what we would check for the reason for filing? Thank you.

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#1444861 - 09/17/10 05:38 PM Re: Estate account activity RMH
Georgia Plum
Unregistered

I would not file a SAR until I had a conversation with her and point blank asked her what was going on. It could be that the estate has been probated and she is entitled to the money and doesn't know she needs to close the estate account out and move the money into her personal account. Who knows why she is doing what she's doing. But until you ask you'll never know. I just don't file SARs for everything I 'think' looks suspicious. I'm going to investigate and ask questions before filing a SAR.

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#1444869 - 09/17/10 05:45 PM Re: Estate account activity RMH
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Quote:
I would not file a SAR until I had a conversation with her and point blank asked her what was going on.


Ditto.

My grandpa: Never assume dishonesty when stupidity is an equally plausible excuse.

P.S. If "dishonesty" appears more likely, check "other" and write in "embezzlement" or "misappropriation of funds." Regardless, cancel the ATM card.
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#1444883 - 09/17/10 05:56 PM Re: Estate account activity Elwood P. Dowd
kw004h Offline
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There's an option to select Defalcation/Embezzlement on the SAR Form (Box M on Part III )

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#1444891 - 09/17/10 06:04 PM Re: Estate account activity kw004h
rlcarey Offline
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Box M techically refers to internal defalcation or embezzlement:

A person who, for unauthorized personal use, embezzles, abstracts, purloins or willfully misapplies any of the moneys, funds or credits of a bank, branch, agency or organization or holding company or any moneys, funds, assets or, securities entrusted to the custody or care of such bank, branch, agency, organization, or holding company.
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#1444914 - 09/17/10 06:23 PM Re: Estate account activity rlcarey
kw004h Offline
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Chicagoland, IL
Ah...... Thanks rlcarey.
I had no idea that was meant to be an "internal" thing. Dictionary.com (a truly venerated source!) says "misappropriation of money or funds held by an official, trustee, or other fiduciary." I should have poked around more here http://www.bankersonline.com/aml/suspiciousactivitytypes.html first.....
Last edited by kw004h; 09/17/10 06:29 PM. Reason: more googling
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#1444947 - 09/17/10 07:02 PM Re: Estate account activity kw004h
RMH Offline
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Thanks again to all for your responses. I'm new at this and appreciate all the information. We will talk to the customer directly and figure out what's going on.

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