I would like to get some others' perspective as to how they handle a situation where on a telephone submitted application, the box for borrower not wishing to furnish information is checked but then the sex and ethnicity boxes are checked.

It appears that the originator "guessed" ethnicity and sex but did not want to try and guess race. Or possibly the originator asked the borrower, borrower stated his sex and ethnicity but did not wish to furnish Race and originator checked box that borrower did not want to furnish.

In this situation, does anyone report the Sex and Ethnicity only or code all as borrower did not wish to furnish since the assumption is the originator guessed? The other key to this is re-training but I am interested in how others report in this situation. Do you go back and ask the originator and document the file and if they guessed do you then report all as borrower did not wish to furnish?

If the applicant only wished to report sex and ethnicity but not race, report exactly that....the sex and ethnicity provided, and not reported in a telephone application for race.

So if the box "borrower did not wish to furnish" was checked but the ethnicity and sex boxes were completed, you would report and not second guess that the originator assumed the sex and ethnicity?

You should ask the originator if possible and then document the response.

I would inquire of the originator how they handled. If they said they guessed because borrower did not wish to furnish, I would report the correct code for did not wish to furnish for all 3 and advise the originator that they are not to guess on phone aps.

Thanks to you both, this is the approach I felt needed to be taken. My concern is that originators will not remember what they did, but more than likely will honestly answer that they usually guess at least the sex and ethnicity. More training!!!!

Anything that looks odd to me.....I email the interviewer (loan officer) and document the file. If it looks odd to me, it's likely to look odd to an examiner. Plus, by doing this, you can identify areas where more training is needed.

They may not....but they will say they do! Get it in writing, put it in the file, and that's all you can do.

How do you 'guess' ethnicity over the phone?

If they are existing customers and the loan originator knows him/her/them.

I've told my people that even it's your mother on the phone or sending in the mail or internet app, if the answer is 'I do not wish to provide' that's it. Period. Do not fill in any of the blanks unless you're staring them in the eye at the time of application.

Exactly. I've drilled that and drilled that into loan officers and they seem to have a mental block.

If the application is NOT face to face (i.e. phone/mail/Internet), you don't guess ANYTHING.

The other item I have a problem with, is lenders second-guessing the applicant's choices. "Well, he looked black but he checked 'white.' Should I change it?"

I used to get that too. I told them that it is my right as a consumer to mark what I want when I apply for a covered loan. If I consider myself white today and asian tomorrow, I have that right to mark it however I please depending on how I feel at the time. Haven't had any problems with it since that discussion.

I tell our LOs that we are to report EXACTLY what the applicants mark, no matter what - as long as they mark something - even if it is obviously in error. The examples I use are of a wife marking "male" and of the applicant I had when I was a mortgage assistant who marked all 5 races. Those were their choices, we don't get to second-guess them.

I even tried to drill it in, stating that if a person named David who is by visual observation, a man, checks he is a woman, leave it!!

I just want to clarify that I only did that once Swiggles. And I don't appreciate you posting it here.


(Just trying to make everyone laugh. We all need a laugh right now)

Very funny.

Hey....I enjoyed your part(s) of the Triage! If we could afford you, we'd have you come speak to our local compliance officers' association.

never really had any problems, yet, but i would say that the GMI on the final application should match the original application. most of the time it doesn't. i think the processors are looking at the DLs, or the info from the current loan file. this is what causes problems when doing HMDA. from the chatter here,no matter what, we should always go by the original application info?