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#1470063 - 11/18/10 07:36 PM
CTR on Trust Account
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Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 87
Oklahoma
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When filing a CTR on a trust account what information goes in section A and section B ?
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#1470104 - 11/18/10 08:16 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
pat robbins
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,716
Illinois
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A trust is an entity the same as a corporation, partnership, LLC, etc. Assuming your transaction involves a cash deposit to the trust:
Section A: Legal name of the trust. Use the Tax ID number for the trust.
Section B: Identifying information about the conductor(s)
If the trustee is withdrawing cash, or has written a check to a third party who is cashing it, then:
Section A: Information on the individual receiving the cash.
Section B: Blank, and check the "Conducted on own behalf" box.
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#1470328 - 11/19/10 12:38 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
BrianC
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,820
Southern California
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We always report the names of the current trustees in an additional Section A for deposits.
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Dolly Nugent CRCM Opinions expressed are my own.
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#1470418 - 11/19/10 02:57 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
Dolly Nugent
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100 Club
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 135
Indiana
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crowman, when a cash deposit > $10k is made wouldn't the names of those receiving benefit be required to be recorded on the CTR as well?
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#1470430 - 11/19/10 03:06 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
Dolly Nugent
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,362
Galveston, TX
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We always report the names of the current trustees in an additional Section A for deposits. Why? Trustees are not beneficiaries of the transaction?? They may be the conductors though.
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#1470454 - 11/19/10 03:23 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
rlcarey
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,716
Illinois
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LCO83, the only FinCen guidence I can fund relates to a 1989 ruling regarding Lawyers Trust Funds where the bank is required to find out from the law firm what client(s) are receiving benefit from the deposit. Note this ruling segregates these accounts from traditional trust account. " This type of account is sometimes called a trust account, attorney account or special account. It is an account established by an attorney into which commingled funds of clients may be deposited. It is not necessarily a "trust" in the legal sense of the term." FinCen ruling Similarly, I'm not going to list all the beneficiaries of an estate account or all the signers on a business account.
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#1470477 - 11/19/10 03:34 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
Dolly Nugent
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,362
Galveston, TX
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I would be hard pressed to list all trustees on every trust account that receives a reportable cash deposit based on a withdrawn FIL that is 16 years old. It doesn't really make any sense. 9 times out of ten, the trustee may not even be a beneficiary of the trust itself.
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The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com
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#1470485 - 11/19/10 03:47 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
rlcarey
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10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
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As interesting as that old 1995 document may be, and in spite of the fact that it's got "stuff" in it that hasn't been re-addressed by FinCEN in the 15 intervening years, FinCEN has officially said that if it ain't on its website, it ain't official, and dropped a bunch of other old opinions, rulings, and resources.
I think you have to consider how to proceed if you're dealing with a grantor trust that uses a Social Security number as its TIN, but if you're concerned with an irrevocable trust with its own EIN, you probably shouldn't report on the trustee(s) in Section A.
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John S. Burnett BankersOnline.com Fighting for Compliance since 1976 Bankers' Threads User #8
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#1470490 - 11/19/10 03:54 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
John Burnett
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
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I think the guidance cited was blatantly wrong the day it was written 15 years ago; it is axiomatic that a trustee does not benefit from a deposit to a trust account unless it's a grantor trust, a distinction the guidance does not make. There's also guidance indicating that the law firm should be listed in section A when a deposit is made to an IOLTA account. That indicates a consistent shortage of comprehension.
As for the status of the Administrative Rulings, who knows? However, they are available to examiners.
Discussions with examiners about how a CTR should have been completed would be incredibly annoying to me. If I thought it was an issue I would call the Helpline, do whatever they said, and write a memo describing the conversation that would serve as my ace in the hole.
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#1470520 - 11/19/10 04:16 PM
Re: CTR on Trust Account
Elwood P. Dowd
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,820
Southern California
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I agree. The guidance didn't make sense when it was written. We rarely have to file a CTR on a trust and in most cases, the trustees are the grantors. If a trust has it's own EIN, we report the trust alone.
This guidance has just stuck in my head over the years. The next time we have a CTR for a trust I will give some thought to how we should report.
Good discussion!
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Dolly Nugent CRCM Opinions expressed are my own.
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