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#1481369 - 12/15/10 10:24 PM Is a CTR required
dg Offline
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Bank President took $25,000 in cash from a bank internal account for employee benefits. Does this require a CTR to be filed?

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#1481370 - 12/15/10 10:26 PM Re: Is a CTR required dg
BrendaC Offline
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What kind of benefits are paid in cash?
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#1481372 - 12/15/10 10:26 PM Re: Is a CTR required BrendaC
dg Offline
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Hopefully a bonus smile

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#1481374 - 12/15/10 10:30 PM Re: Is a CTR required dg
rlcarey Online
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Yes, a CTR is required. I assume whatever cash he is handing out is controlled, documented, and added to the employees W-2s.

Sounds a little hokey to me.........
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#1481384 - 12/15/10 10:40 PM Re: Is a CTR required rlcarey
BrendaC Offline
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And if it is for something like bonuses, the bank would be benefiting and he would be conducting? Or would the employees be benefiting and he would be conducting? What if no one person benefits over $10k?
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#1481393 - 12/15/10 10:47 PM Re: Is a CTR required rlcarey
dg Offline
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So would the CTR be completed as President on behalf of the Bank?

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#1481399 - 12/15/10 10:51 PM Re: Is a CTR required dg
Bec Offline
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We had a similar situation where an officer took out a $25,000 for "christmas cash" to the employees. Are you saying we should have filed a CTR?
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#1481412 - 12/15/10 11:11 PM Re: Is a CTR required Bec
dg Offline
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I don't think it matters who actually benefits from the cash particulary of 10k, Im just wondering if the Bank goes in Part I Section A person on whose behalf transaction is conducted and the Pres goes in Part I Section A as person involved in the transaction? Im hoping for an exemption somewhere, since a bank is involved?

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#1481423 - 12/16/10 12:13 AM Re: Is a CTR required dg
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There was one person conducting the transaction, therefor a CTR is required. Techically, each employee that received part of the money goes into Section A as beneficiaries. This is not the way to handle a Christams bonus situation.
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#1481426 - 12/16/10 12:17 AM Re: Is a CTR required rlcarey
dg Offline
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Yes I agree, but I'm probably not going to argue with him about it. So the Bank name is not reported?

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#1481427 - 12/16/10 12:27 AM Re: Is a CTR required dg
rlcarey Online
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The Bank is not getting the money, the employees are......
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#1481447 - 12/16/10 01:09 PM Re: Is a CTR required rlcarey
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OK, after sleeping on this, this might be just an internal transaction of the bank and not require reporting, but I doubt that you will find any actual guidance,
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#1481468 - 12/16/10 01:54 PM Re: Is a CTR required rlcarey
John Burnett Offline
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That's the way I'd look at it. Removing the cash from the teller line but keeping it under control of the bank doesn't IMO create a cash transaction for reporting (bank had it, bank still has it). And the bank completes each of the individual transactions, presumably none of reportable size.

I'd make an argument you don't have a CTR thing going on.
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#1481563 - 12/16/10 03:18 PM Re: Is a CTR required John Burnett
BrendaC Offline
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That's where I was going with my thoughts. Unless one person obtained cash IAO $10k or more, I would think no CTR is required. Not the best idea ever hatched by management and definitely could present problems if identified by an examiner that decides a CTR is required. I would probably contact FinCEN for guidance to proactively document my files.
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#1481720 - 12/16/10 05:50 PM Re: Is a CTR required BrendaC
dg Offline
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Spoke to FINCEN this AM. Was told "yes" a CTR needs to be completed with the employee that withdrew the cash as Part I Section A On Whos behalf transaction was completed, with Section B box e checked Conducted on own behalf. Now if any one individual employee recieves more than 10,000 in cash that employee would be included as a multiple person. Also, box #35 would not be checked including account numbers affected, however #36 would be with a description of withdrawal for payment of employee bonuses.

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#1481725 - 12/16/10 05:52 PM Re: Is a CTR required dg
BrendaC Offline
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I still think it isn't needed, but I am not surprised. What a waste of time. I'll bet they think twice about doing THAT again!
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#1481884 - 12/16/10 08:45 PM Re: Is a CTR required dg
Kelsey D Offline
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Originally Posted By: September
Now if any one individual employee recieves more than 10,000 in cash that employee would be included as a multiple person.


Interesting advice from FinCEN. So if the bonuses went to 30 different people, one of which did really well and received $11,000, that one person would be listed on the CTR with the president in section A and not the other 29? Isn't that like saying if I deposit $15,000 into my individual account and $1,000 into my joint account with my husband, I shouldn't report my husband because he didn't benefit from more than $10,000? Seems to contradict all of the guidance.

I agree with the others that it's not even reportable in the first place, and I find the way that FinCEN said you should complete the CTR to be very odd.
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#1481978 - 12/16/10 09:51 PM Re: Is a CTR required Kelsey D
dg Offline
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My thought on adding an employee on the CTR that recieves over $10,000 of it is odd because when a customer comes in and withdraws the same amount for example we don't ask where it's going and how it's going to be split up. Why now?

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#1482118 - 12/17/10 01:45 PM Re: Is a CTR required dg
rlcarey Online
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I bet a dollar to a donut if you called them back you and asked the same question you would get a different answer as it sounds like someone made this up on the fly.
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#1482176 - 12/17/10 02:47 PM Re: Is a CTR required rlcarey
BrendaC Offline
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I wouldn't take that bet because I suspect you are absolutely correct!
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#1482973 - 12/20/10 07:47 PM Re: Is a CTR required BrendaC
dg Offline
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Darn, it was not for employee bonuses. I have another call into FINCEN for further clarification and guidance.

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#1482980 - 12/20/10 07:54 PM Re: Is a CTR required dg
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Like a few of your respondents, I'm old enough to remember getting bonuses in cash. I would have assumed that banks just don't do that anymore and if they did, there would be dual control over the withdrawal and distribution of the funds.

However, now that you say it wasn't for bonuses, I'm wondering if you are working with the wrong acronym. Maybe "SAR" would be more appropriate.

Someone with the right title needs to simply ask the CEO what the money was for.
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#1484395 - 12/22/10 09:38 PM Re: Is a CTR required Elwood P. Dowd
dg Offline
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So here's the response on the second go around with FINCEN. I eventually was told that the cash was withdrawn for employee benefits, therefore because it was being held internally, no CTR was required, unless one or more of the employees recieved over $10k and the bank had knowledge at the time of the transaction, then I would file a CTR on the individual(s) that recieved over 10K and the President in Section B as conducting on behalf of. I too am old enough to remember bonuses in cash, Ken. LOL

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