Hey everyone. I could sure use some feedback. We offer a children's checking account, and recently a parent brought her child into the bank to open an account. The transaction triggered a CTR. For deposits, we place all owners on the CTR, and in this case, the child is considered a joint owner and was present. How do you complete Item 14, about verifying the identity of the owner? Most children don't have driver's licenses or state ID cards. Any thoughts on this?

CIP applies to minors... What did you use as identification for the minor when the account was opened?

Normally, we obtain the social security card and obtain the four identifiers. If the guardian isn't an existing customer or hasn't been CIPed before, then we obtain the DL and or other identifying information from the guardian. Often minors don't have driver's license or in some cases, school ID cards.

Hey guys. Can anyone tell me what documentation they use to ID children for CTR purposes? Thanks.

That is totally up to the individual banks and their CIP processes. For minor under driver age, I would imagine you are pretty limited.

I would also be pulling out a SAR and determining what a minor was doing with more than $10,000 in cash. That is a lot of lawn mowing, babysitting and snow shoveling.

FSIS - I saw similar activity in an UTMA account years ago. 'Daddy' was using the account for his personal use - depositing checks and then cashing out later. I also thought this was SAR worthy.

Although these accounts are children's accounts, typically the deposits are made by parents so that they can have a "nest egg" or college fund for their children. My problem with this siutation is that because the child is an owner of the account, he should be on the CTR. I'm just not sure what ID is appropriate to complete the CTR when a minor is an owner, but not driving age, or doesn't have a school ID card.

I have to wonder - how is a kid walking around with more than $10,000 cash?

The child is not walking around with $10,000.00 cash. However, the parent may have that much cash, for the child.

If they're shoveling snow in New Jersey they could have $10,000!

leo -

I know you're not looking for any SAR guidance ... so I'll stick to CTRs .... Randy was right - you are very limited to what you can use for Identification. It's all based on what is in your CIP policy and how you stated you will identify minors without state identification cards. This is just one reason why banks do not typically allow minors to be joint owners on an account.

You are going to have to state you gathered their SS card and enter their SSN as identification and hope it flies during examination.

Or contact FinCEN for guidance.


The CTR requirements state:

Identification Requirements. All individuals (except a
employees of armored car services) conducting a
reportable transaction(s) for themselves or for another
person, must be identified by means of an official document(s).

Acceptable forms of identification include
driver’s license, military and military/dependent
identification cards, passport, state issued identification
card, cedular card (foreign), non-resident alien
identification cards, or any other identification document
or documents, which contain name and preferably
address and a photograph and are normally acceptable
by financial institutions as a means of identification when
cashing checks for persons other than established
customers.

Acceptable identification information obtained previously
and maintained in the financial institution’s records may
be used. For example, if documents verifying an
individual’s identity were examined and recorded on a
signature card when an account was opened, the financial
institution may rely on that information. In completing the
CTR, the financial institution must indicate on the form
the method, type, and number of the identification.
Statements such as “known customer” or “signature card
on file” are not sufficient for form completion.


Item 14. If an Individual, Describe Method Used To
Verify Identity. If an individual conducts the
transaction(s) on his/her own behalf, his/her identity must
be verified by examination of an acceptable document
(see General Instructions). For example, check box a if
a driver’s license is used to verify an individual’s identity,
and enter the state that issued the license and the number
in items e and f. If the transaction is conducted by an
individual on behalf of another individual not present, or
on behalf of an entity, check box “14d” “Other” and
enter “NA” on the line provided.

Thanks for that information (not as) newbsa. I really appreciate that. When you state that most banks do not allow minors to be joint owners of an account, can you tell me how minors are typicially represented on an account? Are minor accounts considered custodial accounts, similar to rep payee?

From a similar thread discussing UTMAs in Deposits Forum:

Don't assume that everyone asking for a "minor" account is looking to establish an UTMA. They may not actually be looking to make an irrevocable gift of the funds to the minor. You have to determine with the customer their actual intent by asking the appropriate questions.

There could be several scenarios that are identified through the process:

1) UTMA;
2) Joint account with the minor and an adult (depending upon state law and bank policy - ususally reserved for "older" minors now earning their own money);
3) Individual account actually in minor's name (rare and often a bad idea-again if permitted by law and policy); or
4) Account in adult's name POD minor (because parent doesn't really want to gift them the money irrevocably).

That's a good point. I wasn't necessarily speaking about UTMA, but generic accounts for and/or with minors. Maybe individual state laws prevent minors from being considered owners of accounts, even in a joint ownership status?

Yes, state law determines whether the bank can contract with a minor.

Another thought --

Getting ID for the CTR is not a function of your CIP; the two requirements are not linked in that way, even though both deal in identification. If you obtained good ID under CIP, it can be used to complete a CTR.

That said, if the kid isn't present for the deposit to his or her account, you don't need to include item 14 information for him or her. You do need the SSN, of course, but that should be in your account records already.

I guess a better question would be, can anyone give me examples of what would be good identification for a minor who has no state ID/DL or no school ID card?

We don't do it often, but our CIP does allow the opening of accounts for minors and lists the following as acceptable forms of ID.
• Passport
• Birth Certificate
• Youth Organization ID Card (e.g., soccer club, hockey club, YMCA, etc.)
• Student ID Card
• Current State ID
• Social Security Card
• Learner’s Permit
• Library Card
• Ident-A-Kid ID

If these accounts were set up as custodial accounts, where the minor's TIN was used, but the minor had no ownership, or the bank determined that it wouldn't contract with a minor, would Patriot Act sill apply to the minor?

Also, for a minor, if he or she is considered an owner, can you accept documentation that isn't photo ID if you state that in your CIP policy?

If an account is opened for someone without capacity, you apply CIP to the representative. In an UTMA, CIP applies to the custodian. But obviously, your board-approved CIP policy, has to be written that way.

No, the CIP regulation would not consider the kid your customer because the minor cannot open a custodial account and because the custodian is your customer.

As far as documentation is concerned, don't forget that, if your CIP permits it, you don't need documentation of ID at all. You can do non-documentary verification.

John, I understand your remark about non-documentary verification, if your CIP permits. How would that translate into completing the ID field on a CTR for a child, when you hadn't obtained any actual ID?

I'm really trying to figure out some way to allow adults open these saving's accounts with a minor, have the minor primary on the account, apply CIP to the adult, but exclude the child from CIP because he or she is legally unable to be in a binding contract. We don't intend for the minor to withdraw cash, but we don't mind if he or she makes deposits. These accounts are intended to be college fund type accounts. Can we state in our policy that we don't consider minors to be customers, and therefore not subject to CIP? Or, if we state that we are going to get the four identifiers, and view the social security card, how can we state that we obtained the ID of the child on a CTR when the SS Card can't be used in that manner?

By the way, in Arkansas, banks are prevented from transacting with a minor on a loan. But Arkansas Code Section 23-47-202 says, when any deposit is made in a bank by a minor, the bank may pay to the depositor the sums due him or her and the receipt or check of the minor shall be, in all respects, valid in law." Apparently, you cannot enter into a contract with a minor. I'm not sure if a signature card is considered a contract or not. A minor cannot be held responsible for the debt of an account I don't believe.

Our bank policy is the minor must have a state ID. Any minor can get one - even if they bring in the paper that they put in all the paperwork - we'll take that.

You cannot exclude a minor from the definition of "customer" for CIP - but you can state what you will take for identification.

CTR rules state: "Acceptable identification information obtained previously and maintained in the financial institution’s records may be used. For example, if documents verifying an individual’s identity were examined and recorded on a signature card when an account was opened, the financial institution may rely on that information. In completing the CTR, the financial institution must indicate on the form the method, type, and number of the identification."


So check "Other" & put "Social Security Card" - or whatever you use as documentation.

So, even though the SS Card is not listed as an acceptable form of ID for a CTR, because we relied upon it at account inception, we can go ahead and use it for the CTR?

You can use it for ID for an elderly individual.

I think that's your best course of action, based on my understanding of the CTR instructions - but like I said earlier, you better be prepared to discuss this with your examiner.

Your current policy of allowing minors open accounts without IDs puts you in this pickle.

You can always contact FinCEN and get an "official" ruling - but be careful what you ask for