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#160135 - 02/12/04 08:25 PM "Do-Not-Call" Question
DawgFan Offline
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DawgFan
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,678
United States
I have a DNC question for you. A loan officer is going to do some cold calling (people without an established business relationship with the bank), and before he does, he needs to check the National DNC Registry. Does anyone know how he can do that?

One of the people on the list is a close friend of his who does not have an established business relationship with his bank and does appear on the National DNC Registry. Can he call this person anyway to solicit business based on his personal relationship with them (and despite the fact that his friend is on the DNC list)?
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General Discussion
#160136 - 02/13/04 02:54 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
LoisLane Offline
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Posts: 1,570
Wisteria Lane..
To get a copy of the National Do Not Call list go to www.donotcall.gov
I don't think you can view the list without purchasing it.

This was edited to show the correct site 2/17/04
Last edited by LoisLane; 02/17/04 02:25 PM.
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#160137 - 02/13/04 04:01 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Happy Camper Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 186
2FALLS
This brings up an interest situation. The local news reported on a story this morning about a lady receiving a call about the DNC list. It was obviously a scam, as they wanted $500 - $1,000 to ensure she would never receive another unwanted call. They tried to get her personal information, (bank acct #) but she gave them nothing!!!

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#160138 - 02/13/04 08:21 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
WildTurkey Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 921
Down South, USA
Quote:

.... Can he call this person anyway to solicit business based on his personal relationship with them (and despite the fact that his friend is on the DNC list)?



Some people just don't get it. What part of "Do Not" is so hard to understand? I have registered and I would be livid if some so-called (soon to be ex-) friend phoned to sell me something.

When I registered I believed that I had made it quite clear that I do not want marketing calls, not now, not ever. ... My guess is that most people who have registered think the same way.
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#160139 - 02/18/04 02:11 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
DawgFan Offline
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Yes, Wild Turkey, but how confused those people must be when they get a call from someone under the "established business relationship" portion of the law.
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#160140 - 02/18/04 02:29 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Skittles Offline
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TN
They are probably quite angry also.
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#160141 - 02/18/04 08:47 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Gotwood Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 715
Does anyone have a pdf file or link to the actual reg? We have a question whether a consumer filling out an entry form to enter a grand opening prize drawing thereby authorizes us to call them. Current language on the entry form makes no mention of it. The form has a section asking if they want optional information on bank products. This is not required to be filled out in order to enter.
Last edited by Dean M; 02/18/04 08:54 PM.
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#160142 - 02/18/04 09:17 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Anonymous
Unregistered

In the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2004, which establishes the Telemarketing Sales Rule (TSR), the bank's external counsel (compliance specialty firm)has required that any outbound bank calls to former customers (we flat-out do not call non-customer consumers) must not exceed a 30-day window from the date the call is made to the customer. This 30-day period accounts for the monthly Do-Not-Call registrants. The attorney's reasoning is that if you call a former customer who registered on the FTC's DNR registry 30 days or more prior to your call, and the customer did not intitiate the current contact with the bank, then the customer would have cause to initiate a claim of abuse under the Telemarketing Sales Rule. A small institution under $500 million cannot win with the current TSR; it's just too expensive to purchase the DNR exception listing in a compatible software format -- and the "list" is over 57 million records!

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#160143 - 02/18/04 09:56 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
downstown Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 295
St. Louis, MO
Quote:

Does anyone have a pdf file or link to the actual reg?




Click here for the FCC Order. The reg. was also published in the Federal Register on 7/25/03.

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#160144 - 02/18/04 10:49 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Anonymous
Unregistered

I'm confused, first of all, in the body of the FCC order, it says that the FTC "do not call rules" do not apply to banks...I'm just hearing about this for the first time that it may apply to us (I guess I've had my head in the sand!). Is there any clear information regarding what we as banks can or cannot do? Can we call existing customers to cross sell other products we offer? Can or cannot loan officers go out and do "cold calls" on businesses? Thanks for any other help or information that may be out there.

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#160145 - 02/18/04 11:07 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
downstown Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 295
St. Louis, MO
I am far from an expert on this topic, but here is my understanding:
The FTC and the FCC issued virtually identical regulations regarding the do-not-call issue. The FTC rules do not apply to banks, but the FCC's rules do apply to banks. The FTC has been delegated the authority to establish and maintain a do-not-call list. The FCC will use the FTC's list as their own (instead of establishing a second do-not-call list). My understanding is that unless a business (or group) is specifically excluded (e.g., charities, political organizations, etc.) the rules will apply.
Someone please correct if this is not correct.

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#160146 - 02/19/04 03:52 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Mandalay Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9
I'm probably not considered an expert on this topic either, but I have been dealing with it from many different angles the past few months so I think I can provide some insight to some of the questions posted in this thread.

First, for those of you (institutions) who have not registered, you can do that here: www.telemarketing.donotcall.gov - Your first 5 area codes are free (which should address cost concerns for smaller institutions that are community based). Each additional area code is $25, but I believe there is a cap of $7375 for the national list. Downloading the list(s) is really quite simple.

Second, the list is maintained and the legislation was written for consumers, and does not include businesses - so calls to commercial entities can still be made. There are restrictions, however, for faxed advertisements to businesses.

Third, calls to existing customers (those with whom you have an existing business relationship with) can still be made even if they're on the list. The regs have definitions as to what constitutes an 'existing business relationship' - essentially if they've done a transaction with you (payment, deposit, etc) within the past 18 months. It also applies to consumers who have made an inquiry and/or submitted an application to you. This, of course, does not address customers and/or prospects that have opted out of phone calls with directly - you'll still have to maintain these lists on your own and comply with accordingly.

But as Skittles and Wild Turkey indicate, it's quite possible that your customers will be upset if they're on the registry and you call them, and part of that will be caused by lack of consumer understanding of the regulations. So it should be something you should weigh and anticipate if you call on your customers. If you have access to the DNC list, my recommendation is that you scrub it against your customer phone numbers so that they can be flagged accordingly - it will give you one more piece of information to use as you decide how to market to these people. By developing a 'hot' list of your customers, who while they may not have opted-out with you directly, are on the National DNC list and therefore might not want ANY calls b/c that's what they expect, you'll be better prepared not to tick them off. But if you have them flagged, you could then give them to your branch managers to see whether they have any further insight as to phone calls being an OK method to contact them.

As for Dawgfan's original question, I'm a little confused as to whether or not a call can be made to an acquaintance if they're on the list. My original thought was no, and while I haven't had enough time to find out definitively, I did find a conflicting statement here: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/policy/telemarketing.html

In the middle of the page you'll see the statement "The rules allow calls by a marketer to friends, family members and acquaintances". But I'm really not sure. Hope that helps, my apologies for the long rambling post.

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#160147 - 02/19/04 07:46 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Anonymous
Unregistered

Wow-very helpful and thanks. Now the question is this; do other banks out there have a written "do not call" policy? Is this something banks will be asked for in the near future from the regulators and auditors? After further research and getting my head out of the sand, I think we are fine in practice but looks like it would be a good idea to put our practices into policy and make sure it is known institution-wide.

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#160148 - 02/20/04 02:29 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
LoisLane Offline
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Wisteria Lane..
When writing procedures, you might want to consider combining the rules for Do Not Call, Do Not Fax and Do Not Email (CanSpam).
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#160149 - 02/20/04 02:48 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Bear Collector, CRCM Offline
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Posts: 1,830
District of Columbia
We have a written "do not call" policy because it is required by law. In fact, it must be made available to anyone (customers or non-customers) who ask to see it. That was part of the original TCPA and has not changed.
As far as the original question is concerned, the law allows calls to family members, friends etc OF THE PERSON MAKING THE CALL. So yes, the sales person could "cold call" his friend or his own Mom even if they are on the DNC registry, but could not ask someone else to call them. However, if they ask not to be called again, the sales person must ensure that they are placed on the bank-specific DNC list and are not called going forward. Dean, as far as your question is concerned, I think that is a "grey area". You could conceivably say that by entering the drawing the person "inquired" about a product or service, so you can call them for 3 months. However, that is a pretty "iffy" arguement - I think it would be safer if you set up the form to list the name, phone number, a signature line and a check box giving permission to call. Then you have the permission in writing, which is your best protection.
BC
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#160150 - 02/20/04 02:56 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Gotwood Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 715
Thanks BC. We have modified our entry forms to include language authorizing us to call them. You state that a written do not call policy must be made available to customers and non customers. Can you point to where this is at in the reg? I was unaware of this requirement. Thanks.

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#160151 - 02/20/04 04:13 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Lestie G Offline

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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,608
Near the Land of Enchantment
Quote:

When writing procedures, you might want to consider combining the rules for Do Not Call, Do Not Fax and Do Not Email (CanSpam).




I'm thinking of calling mine the "Do Not Bug People Period" policy.
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#160152 - 02/23/04 02:17 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
LoisLane Offline
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Wisteria Lane..
Re: "Do Not Bug People Period" policy.

That's a keeper!
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#160153 - 02/24/04 03:10 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
BrendaC Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Sweet Home AL
It took me months to finally get an answer as to whether we could purchase one DNC list on the holding company level for use by all of our banks and affiliates. The answer is...it depends. If we are operating under similar names, we can purchase one list. Unfortunately, we do not operate under similar names, therefore, we must purchase the list separately for each bank.

Apparently the thought process is that the customer would have no expectation of our intent to share information within our corporate family. This, of course, is totally incorrect since we tell our customers in our privacy disclosure that we will share information for the purpose of offering different products and services. The customer is offered an opportunity to tell us that they do not wish us to share. In my mind, this process clearly creates the expectation of information sharing.

It seems very unfair and unduly costly to community bank holding companies. Anyone else seen anything on this subject?
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#160154 - 02/24/04 05:24 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
DawgFan Offline
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United States
No, but this is annoying. Leave it to the government to create a regulation, and then make it difficult for the regulated to comply.
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#160155 - 02/25/04 05:37 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
SkyDiver Offline
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Posts: 274
Northeast
Quote:

It took me months to finally get an answer as to whether we could purchase one DNC list on the holding company level for use by all of our banks and affiliates. The answer is...it depends. If we are operating under similar names, we can purchase one list. Unfortunately, we do not operate under similar names, therefore, we must purchase the list separately for each bank.

Apparently the thought process is that the customer would have no expectation of our intent to share information within our corporate family. This, of course, is totally incorrect since we tell our customers in our privacy disclosure that we will share information for the purpose of offering different products and services. The customer is offered an opportunity to tell us that they do not wish us to share. In my mind, this process clearly creates the expectation of information sharing.

It seems very unfair and unduly costly to community bank holding companies. Anyone else seen anything on this subject?




Who gave you an answer...FTC or FCC?

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#160156 - 02/27/04 06:58 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
Risky Business Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 39
Washington State
Does anyone have a "do not call" policy out there that they would be willing to share? We are probably alright in practice, but don't currently have anything in writing and I'm not so good at "reinventing the wheel" if I don't have to.

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#160157 - 02/27/04 07:04 PM Re: "Do-Not-Call" Question
BrendaC Offline
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Sweet Home AL
ABIA counsel in Washington working directly with FTC.
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