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#1688008 - 04/11/12 07:23 PM Is It Now an "In Person" Application ??
BLPage Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Virginia
Based on the below quote:

Official Staff Commentary on Regulation C
Effective January 1, 2004
Paragraph 4(a)(10) Applicant and income data.

1. Applicant data—completion by applicant. An institution reports the monitoring information as provided by the applicant. For example, if an applicant checks the “Asian” box the institution reports using the “Asian” code.

2. Applicant data—completion by lender. If an applicant fails to provide the requested information for an application taken in person, the institution reports the data on the basis of visual observation or surname.

3. Applicant data—application completed in person. When an applicant meets in person with a lender to complete an application that was begun by mail, Internet, or telephone, the institution must request the monitoring information. If the meeting occurs after the application process is complete, for example, at closing, the institution is not required to obtain monitoring information.

I believe that #3 turns an application into an in-person app and the loan officer is 'required' to collect ethnicity, race and gender....not just 'request' it....per Para #2. I've been told that I am 'forcing compliance by misinterpreting the regulation. Is it or is it not now an in person application ?

Your thoughts and advice are appreciated.

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#1688012 - 04/11/12 07:34 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
Matt_B Offline
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A CU, Where Regs Don't Apply
If they are actually completing the application during the in-person meeting, then I would agree, you then have an in-person application. If the application is fully completed prior to this meeting and the applicant is simply dropping off income documentation or something of that nature, then it wouldn't be.

I'd venture a guess your LO's just don't want to mess with it. But, they aren't the ones that have to answer when you get questioned about your HMDA data either! We never have an application fully completed without the applicants being physically present at some point, so I accept no excuses for unknown applicant data fields.
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#1688141 - 04/12/12 01:55 AM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
Truffle Royale Offline

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I fall on the other side of the fence. The sections quoted say you must request the information. It stops short of saying you must complete based on visual observation.

Further, we do NOT complete the application at closing because I think it skews the reporting.
Consider: two applications received by mail with Section X left blank.
One application is denied so the information remains blank.
On the loan that closes, the information is completed.
So only denied loans will be marked information not provided on your LAR despite the fact that many may come in blank.
To me, that's just not right.

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#1688171 - 04/12/12 01:09 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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Between the lines
We are also in the camp of not completing the information at closing or after the app process is complete.

We take apps by phone and via internet. If they come in to finish the process, then we collect it. If we are deep in the loan process, and they just come in to pick up a copy of the appraisal, drop off additional papers, etc. we leave the codes as not furnished by mail, etc.

Truffle makes a good point about having info on all closed loans and not on all denials. Don't give the fair lending examiners something else to ponder.
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#1688785 - 04/13/12 07:13 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
Rocky P Online
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,441
Florida
We interpret it as with the appendix B - once the application is taken, that stops the bank's liability to get information.:

E. If the applicant declines to answer these questions or fails to provide the information on an application taken by mail or telephone or on the Internet, the data need not be provided. In such a case, indicate that the application was received by mail, telephone, or Internet, if it is not otherwise evident on the face of the application.
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#1688972 - 04/16/12 02:08 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
Dan Persfull Offline
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Bloomington, IN
If you receive an application by fax, mail or Internet and then during the course of processing the application [I'm not talking about at closing. Once you get to closing the application process has been completed] you (the LO) meet with the applicant face to face then how can you claim you (the LO) did not have a face to face meeting with the applicant to complete the application whether it's to review income, debts, etc?

In that meeting you must ask for the GMI, and you must inform them why you are requesting the information (re-give the disclosure) and if the GMI not provided the LO must make the determination based on their visual observation and/or surname.

Simply because an application began as a non face to face application does not mean it will end up as a non face to face application.
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#1690266 - 04/19/12 01:15 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
BLPage Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Virginia
Many thanks to all of you for your thoughts and advice. My interpretation of #3 above agrees with Dan's so I feel much more confident about offering it up as a partial solution.

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#1690473 - 04/19/12 04:41 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
kake Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 82
Oregon
So... Business individual purchases dwellings usually at auction at a good price, fixes them up and adds them to his rental supply. He has purchased 3 this year. He makes the request by phone, we prepare the documents and he usually signs documents in escrow but we do know this individual well as he is in frequently. When given the option he states he does not care to supply the Government monitoring information. Since we know this individual should we provide the sex, ethnicity, race from current transactions? Currently we have it marked as information not provided by applicant in phone application.

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#1690475 - 04/19/12 04:47 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
Dan Persfull Offline
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Bloomington, IN
You would not report the informaion unless you met with him during the application process for the specific request to complete the process.
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#1690486 - 04/19/12 05:05 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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Between the lines
kake, you should ask for it everytime and give him the opportunity to supply the information or decline.

When training my employees, I remind them that the attitudes and ideas of customers are constantly changing. We bankers have no way of knowing whether they have been researching ancestry and decided to acknowledge something new or nothing at all. Even on the sex issue, just because you have known them for 20 years, you do not REALLY KNOW unless, well, you get the idea.
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#1705985 - 06/01/12 09:36 PM Re: Is It Now an "In Person" Application ?? BLPage
Agent 99 Offline
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Thank you soccer momQueen for stating that. I state to alwayd ask for each application too. There isn't really anything in the reg that I know of that allows the lender repeatedly use the same responses. Once in a blue moon someone will forget and then we will go to a previous loan and rely on the GMI in that file, but not as a practice. Oh, and if the lender did meet with the applicant face to face in the application process, we do have the lender complete of visual observatioin when the borrower does not wish to furnish the responses.

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