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#1739939 - 09/11/12 08:08 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Peepers
Pale Rider Offline
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under the Lone Star
Originally Posted By: Peepers
::wonders if any Chicago area school kids are reading these threads::


80% can't read at their grade level!
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#1739943 - 09/11/12 08:14 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Quote:
kids can't read


is this the PE teachers fault? or the math teacher? science?

we have so hamstrung our teachers ability to teach...kids are now "socially promoted" regardless of capability, so they will be with kids their age...you can't discipline kids in school, for fear of being arrested...assigning homework to inner city youths is verboten - they don't have parents engaged and willing to help them...in many big cities, the only kids in public school are those whose parent(s) can't afford private school - where teachers are still allowed to teach, and hold kids accountable, and punish those who transgress the rules...and parents want to be involved in their kids and school - and usually are!
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#1739946 - 09/11/12 08:32 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
Miscuit Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
Originally Posted By: Peepers
::wonders if any Chicago area school kids are reading these threads::


80% can't read at their grade level!


then they should be fine with these threads smirk

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#1739955 - 09/11/12 08:57 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
POTY^^^^^
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#1739958 - 09/11/12 09:00 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read edAudit
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Originally Posted By: EdAudit
not when compared to this group

http://longisland.newsday.com/schools/rankings.php?id=pay


Note data is from 2005 and salaries have gone up.


This may be a little closer and you can check each state. However, it says starting salary for Oklahoma is $35,000 and I know that my daughter started at less than that so....

http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/Oklahoma-teacher-salary

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#1739962 - 09/11/12 09:17 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
Queen Mum Offline
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Checked the State department of Education website which lists salary schedules. In 2008 a beginning teacher in Oklahoma could not be paid less than $31,600 - which could include fringe benefits paid by the district. If you had a Master's you could get $32,800 and a doctorate $34,000. Checking the pay scale for 2012-2013 - it's the exact same. After you have taught for 25 years there is no increase in payscale unless the minimums are raised. I have been in banking 30 years. I would hate to think that I would be stuck making what I did 5 years ago until I can retire in another 12 years.

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#1739963 - 09/11/12 09:26 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
straw Offline
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Arizona is similar but my brother in NY makes over $100k, free health care for life and can retire at 55 at 80% of his salary. He gets step ups for seniority, more sick days than I get for vacation days while only having a 180 day work year. He banks the sick days and he figure he will stop working 3 to 4 years prior to retirement on full pay using his sick pay.

Chicago is similar. They work even less, fewer hours in a day. The median is over $70k, free health care, similar pension. Chicago offerd 4% per year raises, even though school budget will be $1 billion deficit. Union said its not enough.

I don't know about you, but I haven't seen a 4% raise in 5 years, with no raise 3 of the last 5 years.

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#1739981 - 09/11/12 11:31 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
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I was SHOCKED when I saw a loan for two retired Illinois teachers cross my desk last week. Their combined monthly retirement income was over $14,000. Yup, $7k each a month! Oh, and they were in their 50s.

Had I known this when I was in school in IL, I would have changed majors and (choke) stayed there long enough to retire like this.

Retirement from banking will not yield anything like this!

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#1740015 - 09/12/12 12:17 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
waldensouth Offline
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FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
A friend of mine just retired after 30 years of teaching - she is 3 years younger than me - 51 :-( She's always had 2 jobs - teaching and being organist/choir director at the church. She will have a nice retirement - travel a lot. She always put a lot into her teaching and they have a fabulous choir program at the HS. She just burned out. She began doing workshops for other HS before she retired. I imagine she will continue that.

Last time I checked - starting salary here is $40,000.
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#1740063 - 09/12/12 01:36 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
Queen Mum Offline
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My sister retired from teaching a couple of years ago, but in Oklahoma you don't get free health care. She is now on Medicare and supplemental insurance. The retirement benefits are nice, but as for only working 180 days a year - a lot do more. Figure in the weekends, summers spent in workshops or taking continuing education classes or just getting ready for the next school year, especially if you teach in elementary. Oh, and the evenings grading papers, etc. My daughter goes in around 7:00 so she can beat the traffic - 750 kids being delivered down a 2 lane road. She takes a protein shake for lunch that she gulps down the 15-20 minutes they are in music and movement. She doesn't have time to eat during lunch with 23 kids to supervise. She is on the playground with them and can leave at 3:30 if she doesn't stay to work on lesson plans or clean up from the day. She is on her feet for most of that time and keeping 23 5 year-olds under control. That's a long day and she comes home exhausted. I came from a teaching family so I know the time and effort and amount of your own money you put into the classroom. She also bought lunches for some of her kids even the first week of school because parents didn't send money. If it's not paid for, the kid's get a frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwich - pre-packaged that has had the crust removed. She said they are nasty and no kid should have to eat that. So she pays for their lunches. All on $1,800/ month take-home.

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#1740070 - 09/12/12 01:58 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
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I've never gotten the "teachers only work 9 months" stuff either......if we want teachers to work 12 months a year, then go to a 12 month a year school year. Simple as that.
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#1740095 - 09/12/12 02:44 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
i know many people, myself included, who come to work early to beat traffic, work late, take work home, work weekends, answer emails late into the night, rarely get a true vacation where work isn't contacting me, I attend continuing education for work, these often start on a Sunday...

I don't get a week at Thanksgiving, 2 weeks at Christmas, a week at Easter, a week at spring break, and 2-3 months off in the summer.

Do teachers work hard? Much like any profession, some do much more than their peers, others do as much, and others still do just enough to get by...

Now, maybe I'm unusual, but over the course of my life I have worked for 13 different companies - from 1 person owners to multi-national companies...in every one of these, i knew before I started what the salary would be, how much time off I would have. I didn't walk into these blind...if i didn't like what i was being offered, or if I thought it should be more after i'd been there a while, i took steps to find something paying more...

Maybe it is time for teachers to wake up and view their jobs like everyone else does...
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#1740101 - 09/12/12 02:50 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
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My brother told me that teaching is for young people and retiring at 55 is essential because teachers get burned out. I turned to my wife and said it is good thing lawyers and accountants don't get burned out so we can work into our late 60's.

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#1740103 - 09/12/12 02:58 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
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Valid points (and for the record....when i was a teacher, i didn't belong to a union and would never have voted to go on strike). My point was that the time off with teaching is simply the nature of the beast: if there are no kids at school for 2 weeks around Christmas or 2 months in the summer, it stands to reason there normally won't be teachers there. It sounds to me like teaching is a different animal depending on what state you're in and whether you're in a rural area versus an urban one. So Happy, i agree with you on the strike part....teachers know the salary schedule upon agreeing to take the job and if they didn't like it, they shoulda looked elsewhere. But the same holds true for the schedule teachers have: we all know that schools are out in the summer. If we as a country don't like it, then make school a year round thing or go back to school and become a teacher to take advantage of it. But don't hold it against teachers if they don't show up in July when school's not on.
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#1740108 - 09/12/12 03:00 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
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Another example of positive union participation.
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#1740117 - 09/12/12 03:08 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
RJ - I'm not holding this against them, just stating for the record...

and, if you annualize the pay rate of teachers as if they were working all but 2-3 weeks, like most of corporate America, their salary increases by roughly another 33%...

Maybe there should be a bankers union i can join so that when a new regulation comes out, if we don't like it, we can go on strike until they rescind it...because this is what the Chicago strike is about - grading teachers and holding them accountable.
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#1740120 - 09/12/12 03:11 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
raitchjay Online
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Like i said, teaching in Chicago, Illinois doesn't appear to resemble teaching in rural Texas at all.
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#1740124 - 09/12/12 03:16 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
edAudit Online
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You are here
It does resemble New York except NY pays more.

There does appear to be differences between "rural" vs "urban" teaching. The same as there are differences between community bank salaries and money center bank salaries.
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#1740131 - 09/12/12 03:24 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
In Louisiana, teachers pay into the state retirement system instead of social security...retire at 20 years with 50% salary, at 25 years with 60% salary, at 30 years with 75% salary. All options have benefits covered at no cost. You can also "retire" through a program called "drop" and "work" for 3 years as a "contract employee" while getting your retirement pay put into a special "retirement account" and get paid your normal salary with no benefit deductions for those 3 years. La. teachers are paid in retirement an average of their 3 highest salary years, so many become assistant principals or coach teams for a year or 2 to boost that amount...

oh, and they pay a whopping $125 per month for family insurance coverage...just went up from $85 a month in my parish...I pay close to $600 per month for mine...
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#1740135 - 09/12/12 03:27 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read Pale Rider
waldensouth Offline
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FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
I'm quite sure the 8%+ who are unemployed in our country would love to have those jobs at those salaries with a 16% pay raise guaranteed over the next 4 years. The rest of working America are held accountable for our job performance - even gov't workers(harder there to get rid of non-productive folks but can be done). I don't understand why teachers aren't. Why can't we establish a standard and hold all teachers accountable?
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#1740143 - 09/12/12 03:45 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read waldensouth
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Bad parenting story. In a public school district that two relatives work for, the reading classes require students to get a parent to sign-off on their homework in order to get full credit, and presumably to get the parents involved with their children. Well one child, a good student, had an assignment to read to his parent and have them sign his book. He never got his book signed however, and was losing points. When asked why he wasn't reading to his parent, he said that 'everytime I try, she tells me to get out of the way, she can't see the TV'. He is now reading to an aide at school during breakfast.

I coach 1st and 2nd graders, and couldn't imagine spending a whole day, everyday with 20-25 of them. Teachers deserve a good salary.

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#1740226 - 09/12/12 05:45 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read raitchjay
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Originally Posted By: raitchjay
teachers know the salary schedule upon agreeing to take the job and if they didn't like it, they shoulda looked elsewhere.
Except for one thing, if yo udon't like your salary at the bank you work at, you can easily go to another company. With school teachers, they have a choice of working for a private school (usually at lower pay) or a public school district (for the state), and pay is fixed. They can't just switch employers easily and stay in their field.

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#1740233 - 09/12/12 05:48 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
if you annualize the pay rate of teachers as if they were working all but 2-3 weeks, like most of corporate America, their salary increases by roughly another 33%...
Sorry, but that doesn't work. Many teachers end up PAYING part of their salary during summers each year to work. Yup, continuing education costs them money. Also, they end up spending part of their salaries on supplies for their students and classroom. Can you imagine if you were required to fork over the money for not only all the pens and paper your customers used, but also books, decorations for your bank, etc.?

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#1740237 - 09/12/12 05:51 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read B_F
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: B_F
Originally Posted By: raitchjay
teachers know the salary schedule upon agreeing to take the job and if they didn't like it, they shoulda looked elsewhere.
Except for one thing, if yo udon't like your salary at the bank you work at, you can easily go to another company. With school teachers, they have a choice of working for a private school (usually at lower pay) or a public school district (for the state), and pay is fixed. They can't just switch employers easily and stay in their field.


they can also look at upgrading their education, becoming "certified" which has guaranteed increases, looking at post-secondary schools (colleges, universities, trade schools, community colleges)...there are options...and, most colleges allow children of employees attend tuition free (yes, you are taxed on this benefit...)
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#1740248 - 09/12/12 05:55 PM Re: Chicago Teachers on strike, kids can't read B_F
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: B_F
Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
if you annualize the pay rate of teachers as if they were working all but 2-3 weeks, like most of corporate America, their salary increases by roughly another 33%...
Sorry, but that doesn't work. Many teachers end up PAYING part of their salary during summers each year to work. Yup, continuing education costs them money. Also, they end up spending part of their salaries on supplies for their students and classroom. Can you imagine if you were required to fork over the money for not only all the pens and paper your customers used, but also books, decorations for your bank, etc.?


the continuing education teachers in Louisiana get is paid for by the school system and done at the school or school board office, no cost to the teachers...i also spend part of my money on school supplies for kids who don't have them...as do most other parents whose kids attend public schools.

I work in a back office, no public sees my group...i spend my own money on decorations for most holidays, we host numerous meals each year for employees (out of my pocket), we do ice cream once a month (yep, my pocket again), and i take employees to lunch on their birthday (yep, my pocket again). With 38 employees, i don;t even want to think of how much it costs...
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