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#1749733 - 10/16/12 09:31 PM remittance transfer exemption
Baker Offline
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Washington State
If we are sending less than 100 remittance transfers in a year do we need to worry about any of the new Regulation E Remittance Transfer rules that become effective in February?

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#1749735 - 10/16/12 09:34 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Reads Regs Offline
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See the slide presentation from today's CFPB webinar on remittance transfers. http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201210_cfpb_remittance_rule_presentation.pdf

It does a good job of discussing the 100 transfers a year provision.
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#1749747 - 10/16/12 10:28 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
cbinder63 Offline

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Colorado
From the Small Entity Compliance Guide released on 10/15/12, at the bottom of page 5, Companies that consistently send 100 or fewer remittance transfers a year do not qualify as remittance transfer providers and are not covered by the rule.
Last edited by cbinder63; 10/16/12 10:28 PM.
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#1749755 - 10/16/12 11:32 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Candice Offline
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Southern California
When counting remittance transfers, should we only count transfers for consumers and not businesses?

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#1749757 - 10/16/12 11:43 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Candice
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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Yes.
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#1750091 - 10/17/12 09:06 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
ahkcompliance Offline
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Midwest
I looked at the slides and now a little more confused...when determining the 100 exception do you only include international or ALL transfers?

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#1750125 - 10/17/12 11:01 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Buddy the Elf Offline
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first lily pad on the right
Only international.
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#1750208 - 10/18/12 01:40 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
ahkcompliance Offline
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Midwest
That is what I thought. Thanks!

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#1750228 - 10/18/12 02:15 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
nybanker66 Offline
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nybanker66
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When counting remittance transfers, should we only count transfers that the recipients were consumers and exclude the transfers that went to businesses? Or does this consumer / business rule only apply to Originators?

Many Thanks for any help ….

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#1750230 - 10/18/12 02:21 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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Consumer originated transfers to businesses are covered. The business exemption is for transfers originated by businesses.
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#1750233 - 10/18/12 02:25 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
nybanker66 Offline
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Thank you kathleen ... Ed C.

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#1750234 - 10/18/12 02:25 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Kathleen O. Blanchard
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Deleted due to dumbness. grin
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#1750307 - 10/18/12 03:55 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
MarieR Offline
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Ken - I thought it also had to be primarily for personal, family or household purposes and not just done by a natural person? I read this in the definition of "sender".
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#1750314 - 10/18/12 03:59 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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Consumer purpose transfers by consumers. An individual conducting a business purpose transfer (not just a transfer to a business, like paying personal insurance or making a personal purchase) is a business purpose transaction.

Say I operate a printing business in my name and I am buying a new printer...business purpose.
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#1750352 - 10/18/12 05:05 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Matt_B Offline
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A CU, Where Regs Don't Apply
As a currently exempt financial, I'm still worried about it.

You will need practices in place to be sure you'll know if you cross the 100 mark, since you've only got 6 months from that point to be compliant.

Our concern is that if several local competitors stop offering the product, we may see an influx that could push us over the mark.
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#1750386 - 10/18/12 05:53 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Matt_B
Dorothy W Offline
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Upstate SC
I listened to the CFPB webinar. They did not directly answer my submitted question about PayPal transactions. If we have to count international debit card purchases via PayPal as OUR remittances, then we exceed the 100 threshold. If we do not have to count these because PayPal will be responsible for providing a remittance receipt, then my bank is way below the 100 threshold. How are you treating international debit card purchases via PayPal that are presented/processed as ACH - exempt or covered? THANKS.

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#1750394 - 10/18/12 06:03 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
BrianC Offline
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Illinois
In the case of PayPal IATs, they are covered transfers for the ODFI. As the RDFI, you have no disclosure requirements and they don't count toward your 100. (They count toward PayPal's bank's 100.)
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#1750421 - 10/18/12 06:28 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Compliance504 Offline
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Tennessee
Consumer originated transfers to businesses are covered. The business exemption is for transfers originated by businesses.


Kathleen, I read the final rule and the reg a little differently. I understood that if a remittance transfer was not for personal, family our household purposes, then it wasn't covered by this reg. When I was doing our count, I did come across a couple of international wires that were done from consumer accounts but were well documented that they were for a business purpose....these were very odd situations....I did not include these in my count as they were NOT for personal, family or business purpose.

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#1750426 - 10/18/12 06:33 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Compliance504 Offline
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Tennessee
Should all consumer originated transfers count regardless of the purpose of the transfer?

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#1750431 - 10/18/12 06:40 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Compliance504
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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Originally Posted By: Compliance504
Consumer originated transfers to businesses are covered. The business exemption is for transfers originated by businesses.


Kathleen, I read the final rule and the reg a little differently. I understood that if a remittance transfer was not for personal, family our household purposes, then it wasn't covered by this reg. When I was doing our count, I did come across a couple of international wires that were done from consumer accounts but were well documented that they were for a business purpose....these were very odd situations....I did not include these in my count as they were NOT for personal, family or business purpose.


A consumer purpose transfer by an individual is covered. A payment from an individual to a business for consumer purposes is covered....a normal consumer expense like buying a vacation home in another country, an international purchase of train tickets for a vacation, etc.

A business purpose transfer by anyone is not covered, such as my example of me buying a printing press for my business.
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#1750433 - 10/18/12 06:42 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
Compliance504 Offline
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Tennessee
Thanks so much Kathleen.....

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#1750449 - 10/18/12 07:12 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption BrianC
Dorothy W Offline
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Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: BrianC
In the case of PayPal IATs, they are covered transfers for the ODFI. As the RDFI, you have no disclosure requirements and they don't count toward your 100. (They count toward PayPal's bank's 100.)


Between the time I posted this and now, I went back & reread some posts. John Burnett used the example of our customer purchasing goods on eBay & paying for this internationl purchase via eBay as a remittance that is not covered, thus does not count toward our bank's 100 transactions threshold. I beleive eBay ownes PayPal, don't they? If so, then it seems John had addressed my question but I had not read the threads with this exact example in mind before.

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#1752970 - 10/26/12 08:29 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Dorothy W
Carolina Blue Offline
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Carolina Blue
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Lost in a regulatory fog
So I found out that our customers can send international transfers through a PayPal p2p function in our online bill pay. Is PayPal still considered the ODFI in these situations and we do'nt have to worry about the remittance rules? Or are we the ODFI and PayPal is the intermediary?

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#1753986 - 10/31/12 07:18 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Carolina Blue
John Burnett Offline
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Cape Cod
Those PayPal P2P remittances (if over $15) could be subject to the rule if they originate in the U.S. and are known to be paid outside the U.S. But if there is nothing in the transaction to identify where it's to be paid (nothing more than an email address is required, as I understand it), the provider can assume it's to be paid in the U.S. and not have to comply. Specifically, Comment 30(c)-2.iii. says, in pertinent part,

"Where the sender does not specify information about a designated recipient’s account, but instead provides information about the recipient, a remittance transfer provider may make the determination of whether the funds will be received at a location in a foreign country on information that is provided by the sender, and other information the provider may have, at the time the transfer is requested. For example, if a consumer in a State gives a provider the recipient’s email address, and the provider has no other information about whether the funds will be received by the recipient at a location in a foreign country, then the provider may determine that funds are not to be received at a location in a foreign country. However, if the provider at the time the transfer is requested has additional information indicating that funds are to be received in a foreign country, such as if the recipient’s email address is already registered with the provider and associated with a foreign account, then the provider has sufficient information to conclude that the remittance transfer will be received at a location in a foreign country."

Comment: "Other information the provider may have" could include the currency in which the P2P payment is to be made. If the currency is Czech, one might safely assume the remittance will be outside the U.S. In that case, the rule would apply. Someone will have to provide disclosures, IMHO, and who that someone is could depend on what "wrapper" is used to present the P2P service. If it's branded as a PayPal transaction, I think PayPal will have to disclose. If it's branded as a service provided by your bank or CU, the bank or CU might have to provide the disclosures. PayPal may actually drive those disclosures, but they'd appear to come from the bank or CU, again IMHO.
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#1754899 - 11/05/12 01:05 PM Re: remittance transfer exemption Baker
John Burnett Offline
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So, Carolina Blue, how do your customers access the PayPal P2P service? Through your bank's online banking services, or through a link out to PayPal where they enroll there and set up their profiles so that PayPal debits their account with you? Can you describe the process in detail so that we can get a better understanding of whether you or PayPal will be subject to subpart B?
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