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#1778556 - 01/22/13 06:22 PM Checked ALL boxes???
Truffle Royale Offline

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Quick search didn't help.
Wise guy borrower checked do not wish to provide AND not Hispanic and ALL of the race boxes.
Normally I'd just report it all but LO wrote on application not/white/male based on face to face so I'm asking for confirmation that I report everything the borrower marked, right?

Life was not meant to be easy. frown

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#1778625 - 01/22/13 08:02 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
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Don't know if this is right, but this is what I would do.

The lender should call the applicant and ask what the applicant intended by checking that he didn't want to provide the information and then providing it. Evidently, the applicant did not read the HMDA disclosure or the lender did not instruct him to read it.

You (or the lender) might re-explain that federal law requires that the bank must report this info, explain about a face-to-face interview and then just ask him....does he want the bank to guess the info or does he want to select what the bank will report.
Last edited by swiggles; 01/22/13 08:02 PM.
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#1778627 - 01/22/13 08:07 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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I would just report the actual ethnicity race(s) and gender that he checked. I would give no weight to what the LO entered - it should not be there.

You could ask the ustomer to clarify if you want to go tht far.
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#1778628 - 01/22/13 08:08 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Truffle Royale Offline

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nope...he knew what he was doing...being contrary.
There's no regulation against that...yet.
My only concern is that the LO wrote not/white/male afterwards.
I'm 99.9% sure that I should and just as sure that doing so will trip the examiners eyeballs to it.

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#1778630 - 01/22/13 08:08 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Truffle Royale Offline

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what about the do not wish to provide part, Kathleen?

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#1778632 - 01/22/13 08:10 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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My view is he overrode that by completing the data.
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#1778633 - 01/22/13 08:11 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Truffle Royale Offline

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sounds reasonable...which does not necessarily = right in an examiner's eyes. smirk But I think I could fight that battle.

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#1778634 - 01/22/13 08:13 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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If the borrow completed the form, the lender should not have added anything. How the customer views himself is what matters, even if he wrote it tongue in cheek.

We have no idea how many people enter incorrect data.
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www.kaybeescomplianceinsights.com

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#1778635 - 01/22/13 08:16 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Truffle Royale Offline

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totally agree.
Dropping the LO's part was easy.
do not wish to provide AND marking boxes was the quandry part.
I just figured there had to have been at least one other smart guy who stuck his tongue out at the government this way and I wondered how it was handled.
If I take the 'do not wish' part out, I'm far less likely to get this file pulled in my next exam.

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#1778645 - 01/22/13 08:27 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
RR Joker Offline
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We've had a few borrowers do that as well..either being smartelecky or just marking everything without paying attention to what was being marked.

We entered everything they put except they couldn't be both male and female...that's the real quandry on those uber smartelecky ones! cry

I will say I don't think I've seen a LO try to explain what they are after that tho! LOL!
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#1778652 - 01/22/13 08:32 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
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I would just be nervous about the contradicting answers. Yes, supposedly it could be viewed that he overrode his "do not wish to furnish" answer by then checking boxes. But the fact that he checked all the boxes, to me makes the info worthless. And the application will automatically fall into the minority bucket. So how will an examiner view it? Plus, it would appear that perhaps the bank did not fulfill its role in helping the applicant to understand the disclosure and the reason for the information. I would still be contacting the applicant, verifying and documenting what the applicant wants.

Perhaps educate the loan officer to inspect the application in a face-to-face interview before letting the applicant walk away?
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#1778668 - 01/22/13 08:56 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
I've had 'em mark all the race boxes before. I reported exactly what they marked. No questions in the next exam, and the file did get pulled.
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#1778672 - 01/22/13 09:00 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
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I wouldn't have a problem reporting all the boxes if the applicant had not also indicated that he didn't want to disclose the info.

But as Kathleen pointed out...if he checked "I don't want to furnish" and then goes ahead and furnishes, well I guess the "do not" box becomes moot.

So yeah....guess I agree with that.
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#1778676 - 01/22/13 09:09 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
Yeah, I can see where that would be a head-scratcher.
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#1778793 - 01/23/13 06:50 AM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Truffle Royale Offline

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Thanks all. It helps to talk this through with all ya'll.
I figure if I've got the 1003 marked by the applicant, I really can't get chewed out by an examiner. They can tell me I should have done this or that but that would be in their opinion. Strictly following the Reg means I mark whatever the borrower did.

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#1778799 - 01/23/13 01:07 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Skittles Offline
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That's what I would do - and maybe put a memo in file to explain the thought process.
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#1778855 - 01/23/13 02:36 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Skittles
swiggles Offline
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Originally Posted By: Just Skittles
and maybe put a memo in file to explain the thought process.
Yes.....'cause THIS loan will be in the examiners' sample. It seems to always work that way.
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#1778951 - 01/23/13 03:50 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? swiggles
Truffle Royale Offline

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Originally Posted By: swiggles
....'cause THIS loan will be in the examiners' sample. It seems to always work that way.


Do you know WHY it always seems to work this way?
Because the first thing that happens to your LAR when it hits your examiner's inbox is that it gets loaded into Excel and pivoted! smile
Pivoting breaks out the information into little boxes.
So any loan like this one will end up in its own little box with a big Ol' bullseye painted on it for the examiner to zero in on.
That's why I'm grateful my examiner taught me how to do pivot tables.
Most times, I have a good idea what's going to be under scrutiny before I even submit my LAR so I can prepare for it better.

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#1778988 - 01/23/13 04:42 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
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Originally Posted By: Truffle Royale
Originally Posted By: swiggles
....'cause THIS loan will be in the examiners' sample. It seems to always work that way.


Do you know WHY it always seems to work this way?
Because the first thing that happens to your LAR when it hits your examiner's inbox is that it gets loaded into Excel and pivoted! smile
Pivoting breaks out the information into little boxes.
So any loan like this one will end up in its own little box with a big Ol' bullseye painted on it for the examiner to zero in on.
That's why I'm grateful my examiner taught me how to do pivot tables.
Most times, I have a good idea what's going to be under scrutiny before I even submit my LAR so I can prepare for it better.


All the more reason to contact the borrower and verify the borrower's intent......possibly turning this into a non-hispanic white application. There is no sense putting stupid red flags into the LAR that can be dealt with beforehand. If the borrower is THAT big of a Smartbutt, perhaps he should be asked to come back in remove and initial the "I do not want to provide" box. That will teach him.!!!! crazy
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#1778990 - 01/23/13 04:45 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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I know you are not dealing directly with these lenders, but this is a good example of why lenders need to be trained to READ the application that the customer filled out, and deal with the issue while the customer is still there. (As someone pointed out above.)
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#1779003 - 01/23/13 04:56 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Truffle Royale Offline

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This is going much further than I intended but I'm going to respond because you've hit a nerve.
IMHO, it is not the bank/LOs duty to instruct the borrower on which boxes to mark. Nor is it their duty to prohibit them from marking whatever they want. And lastly, it's definitnitely not the LOs place to admonish the borrower for being a smartazz and/or rallying against what they see as a dumb government intrusion into their lives.

With respect to my LAR, seeing as how this application is nearly a year old, what's done is done. I'm not going to rake up the past with the LO or the applicant.

Thank you all again for your input.

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#1779017 - 01/23/13 05:12 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
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I guess my main beef is that if the borrower enters conflicting information....."I don't want to provide" and then provides, the bank has the right to clarify....not instruct, not influence....just clarify.

Though if the ap is that old, I agree...especially if it was withdrawn or declined or approved but not accepted, would not contact the applicant.
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#1779019 - 01/23/13 05:14 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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The bank certainly does have the right to review the form and ask the borrower what they meant if there is conflicting information.

If lenders don't have the common sense to do that politely in order to gather proper information for the bank, then they should not be lending.
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Kathleen O. Blanchard, CRCM "Kaybee"
HMDA/CRA Training/Consulting/Mapping
The HMDA Academy
www.kaybeescomplianceinsights.com

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#1779235 - 01/23/13 09:37 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
swiggles Offline
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Gosh, Kathleen. Lenders don't have time to mess with all that "compliance stuff!"
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#1779294 - 01/23/13 11:11 PM Re: Checked ALL boxes??? Truffle Royale
Truffle Royale Offline

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Bottom line on my issue, the lender can ask as politely as humanly possible and the applicant can still answer as mine did above.
I'll report exactly what he marked which is what I believe the letter of Reg C says I should do.
Sorry I took this into a debate.

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