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#182701 - 05/06/04 10:28 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him *Update*
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Anonymous
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Michael Moore is 2000 miles left of left. He is a genious when it comes to marketing - he is actually promoting his movie free of charge by creating this storm in a tea cup. If Disney does not want to release it, he can take it to anyone who will - no one is stopping him from doing so, but no - milk as much promotion as you can Mooooooooo. Michael Mooooo needs to be treated for BSE - or be part of a pyramid in some jail somewhere
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#182702 - 05/06/04 11:26 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him *Update*
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Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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Questions:
Has Michael Moore ever actually made a movie? It seems that he just goes around and films himself and then edits it to suit his prejudices and his narrative.
Has Michael Moore actually ever worked a day in his life?
What was Michael Moore's response to 911? Seems that his response was to release a fake-u-mentary about the dangers of guns of any kind. Seems he'd have been more timely if he'd made a movie about the dangers of airliners in the hands of extremist Muslims. But I guess that would not fit his prejudices.
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Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city
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#182703 - 05/06/04 11:34 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him *Update*
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,371
Galveston, TX
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Oh - but lumping poor Molly Ivans into the same group - now even she is not that left.
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The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com
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#182704 - 05/07/04 01:09 AM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Do you think that perhaps Mr. Moore believes himself to be our libertarian savior? Maybe he is all about small government.
No, unfortunately, Moore is not a libertarian by any stretch of the word, nor is he an advocate for small government. On the contrary, Moore is a died-in-the-wool Hollywood elitist liberal, who knows what's best for the middle-class common person. You should not drive an SUV, but please understand that as an elitist, he is required to have a fleet of SUVs, limos, and drivers.
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#182705 - 05/07/04 01:08 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him *Update*
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Oh - but lumping poor Molly Ivans into the same group - now even she is not that left.
What is she, then? (Besides obnoxious.)
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#182706 - 05/07/04 01:13 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him *Update*
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,371
Galveston, TX
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Well - OK,you got me there, but you have to admit we do need varying opinions on the political direction of this country, otherwise we might as well live a dictatorship. As long as there are people and freedom, we should celebrate the fact that even people that we disagree with have the freedom to express their views. The fact that we disagree, or even disagree with their tactics, is a freedom in itself than many people are not allowed.
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The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com
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#182707 - 05/07/04 01:19 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him *Update*
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Power Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,568
New Jersey
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Randy, I fully agree with that statement. That's why I said I wish Moore would leave; I would never force him to leave. People like him are so intransigent in their stance and so unwilling to engage in meaningful debate that you wonder if they actually contribute anything to the public discourse. It's difficult to have a battle of wits with someone who's unarmed.
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Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. Peter Drucker
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#182708 - 05/07/04 01:28 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Anonymous
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Fahrenheit 451 is an anti-censorship book. It is perfectly logical, and even predictable, for a liberal like Moore to support civil liberties like free speech. Anyone that doesn't support the First Amendment isn't much of a liberal.
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#182709 - 05/07/04 01:33 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him *Update*
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
...you have to admit we do need varying opinions on the political direction of this country...
I would never say otherwise. But identifying Mr. Moore's "films" as propaganda does not infringe on his right to produce them. (And neither does Disney's unwillingness to be associated with them.)
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#182710 - 05/07/04 01:37 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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Quote:
Fahrenheit 451 is an anti-censorship book. It is perfectly logical, and even predictable, for a liberal like Moore to support civil liberties like free speech. Anyone that doesn't support the First Amendment isn't much of a liberal.
What does being liberal and free speech have to do with one another? They believe in free speech as they define it. Didn't liberals coin the phrase "hate speech." And haven't they lobbied to outlaw it. Look at Canada, religious broadcasters who don't believe that homosexuality is smiled-upon by the God they worship can't even say that in Canada. Liberals in Canada have outlawed that as hate speech. So, again, I do not understand your comment. I did not think "free speech" was a liberal or conservative concept.
As an aside, we must not mistake free speech for unfettered access to speech distribution systems or freedom to put out whatever you please through those systems.
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#182712 - 05/07/04 02:42 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,357
A Grant Wood painting.
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I don’t favor a constitutional amendment banning flag burning. If you burn a flag in front of me, I may park my car on top of you.
I don’t own an SUV because I abhor the waste. You, however, can drive whatever you want.
I will go to all lengths to protect the right of free speech. March down my street in white hooded robes and I will throw bricks.
Mr. Moore can produce whatever he wants. His rights are worth fighting for. His wrongs are a matter that can be dealt with monetarily. I don’t have to buy anything from whoever sponsors his work.
On a side note, have you ever wondered why conservatives can’t figure out how to boycott?
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#182713 - 05/07/04 03:00 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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Here is my thought on this: I will go to all lengths to protect the right of free speech. March down my street in white hooded robes and I will ignore you. If the KKK did not get protesters and press every time they marched, maybe they would stop. (Just send someone from the FBI to take pictures of them when they take their hoods off and keep them in a file somewhere. You never know when it will come in handy. )
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Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city
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#182715 - 06/09/04 07:41 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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Below the Straka article is Michael Moore's arrogant response.
By Mike Straka (FOX News) Michael Moore's publicity machine is at it again.
His "controversial" documentary "Fahrenheit 911" (search) won the (GASP) Palme d' Or at the annual gluttonfest Cannes Film Festival, where the Hollywood elite get to rub shoulders with their loving French counterparts — who, by the way, like to limit the number of American movies that are allowed into their country to "protect" the French film industry. Yet we flock there nonetheless.
Moore's theories on Big Bad America are so hypocritical I wish I didn't have to mention his name in my column. Look, "Bowling For Columbine" was a very well-made documentary, whether you agree with its message or not. And I'm pretty certain so is "Fahrenheit."
What Grrrs me is how Moore loves to point out how Big Bad America is nothing but a giant money machine, willing to sacrifice our childrens' lives to our "innocent" gun-toting killers because the gun industry stands to lose money with regulation. He then confronts Charlton Heston and Dick Clark and tries to invoke either an apology from them or to get them to help change America to match his view of how the country would be better. He goes on to sing the praises of Canada's non-violent society (anyone for a nice game of kick-the-crap-out-of-each- other — eh hum — I mean hockey?).
But one need only to look at the title of both of his "films" — which are at least partially shot on Sony digital cameras, actually — to see that he is profiting more than anybody else from the tragedies that have befallen our country. And he stands to profit more with his latest. Check out this quote from the "Crusader of the Little Man" Moore, on his booed Oscar speech two years ago:
"When everyone was saying that any person who criticized America at a time of war would be shunned and boycotted and ignored and vilified, the sales of my books and movies went through the roof."
Gee Michael, I'm so glad our nation's tragedies are so good for your career. Did you give any of that profit to the families of the kids who were killed at Columbine? Will you be donating money to 9-11 memorials or families?
Or are they just convenient, headline-grabbing titles for your own money making machine?
Hey, Michael, you have every right to make money. That's part of the freedom we're all privileged to have thanks to the thousands of lives sacrificed in the name of the United States of America. But let's call a spade a spade. We're not all "stupid white men," and neither are you.
Michael Moore's Response ... Grrr!
"A significant portion of the proceeds of "Fahrenheit 9/11" will go toward convincing every thinking American to turn off the Fox News Channel. This will be my contribution to making America a better place. I hope they enjoy this year, their last year with actual viewers." — Michael Moore
Now that statement is enough to make any "thinking" American go Grrr! Thanks for your response. Good luck with your film.
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Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city
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#182716 - 06/09/04 09:49 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an aside, we must not mistake free speech for unfettered access to speech distribution systems or freedom to put out whatever you please through those systems.
I disagree, "free speech" is just that. Free. We can't dictate what will be "free speech" or how it will be communicated. It's contradicting.
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#182718 - 06/09/04 09:55 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I wouldn't consider that to be free speech. That would be lack of common sense and manners, unless of course there was a fire!
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#182719 - 06/09/04 09:56 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
..."free speech" is just that. Free. We can't dictate what will be "free speech" or how it will be communicated. It's contradicting.
I think the author is saying that "your" right to speak freely is not an obligation for "me" to print, broadcast, or distribute your speech.
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#182720 - 06/09/04 10:05 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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Quote:
I wouldn't consider that to be free speech. That would be lack of common sense and manners, unless of course there was a fire!
So, you would allow free speech so long as it is with common sense and with manners. Well, there goes everything Michael Moore has to say!
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Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city
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#182721 - 06/09/04 10:06 PM
Re: The French Can Keep Him
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Power Poster
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,706
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