In my opinion, in the case of a government shutdown, the order of not receiving paychecks should be as follows:

1. Members of Congress and the President. You lose out first. Why? Because you will be more incentivized to come to an agreement if it's your pocket that is affected than others.

2. Staff of Congress and the President. That's right, Speaker of the House, Senate Majority and Minority Leader, etc., your secretary no longer comes in to work or gets a paycheck. Do your job without them for a while, while they bark in your ear about your failure to do your job right in the first place costing them a paycheck.

3. Highest Ranking members of the military. Really? You still don't have the hint? Maybe if we lose our generals, chiefs of staff, Admirals, etc., you'll realize that we're open for a military attack and get your head out of your butts!

Meanwhile, we need term limits for congress. Why don't they compromise? Because they are afraid they will lose their full time job and not be elected if they do what's best for the country instead of what the loudest voices in the party are clamoring for. Absent this being a lifetime profession, perhaps we'd see people governing not as a job, but as a duty to the American people to make our nation better.

Finally, you want social security for the American People? Be a part of the American People! You can't force one cake down everyone else's throat and then say hey, we aren't a part of it, we have our own pension plan instead. I bet if members of Congress and the President had to depend on Social Security as part of their retirement plan, they'd be a far less likelihood of the plan failing by the time our children would need it. You want us to all have health care? Be the first ones to give up your group plan and go to the market!

Oh BF, you so crazy...as long as the inmates are running the asylum, there will be no meaningful change

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/...iers-families/#

Ed, what is your source. The reason I ask is that I am trying to dissect if they are taking into account all of the benefits and the differences in the costs of those benefits.

I also don't know if they are using the highest salaries or average salaries. Because when I look at your numbers some of them seem to be average but others there is no way.

Are they also taking into effect the TVM calculations for the pension that private sector employees don't get?

Are they also taking into effect the fact that some of the jobs are ROTC where they are locked into working for a few years at low pay vs people who may have competed on the open market right out of school. Or are they taking into account that the people who qualify for most Gov't jobs or foreign workers (such as analysts) who need work permits that they offer vs actual US citizens. Are they taking into account that those who qualify for Gov't jobs may not have the same level of education.

Because I can guarantee to you that apples to apples government paying jobs pay far more than non government paying jobs.

Ed, I am looking at a CNN study that contradicts what you are reporting.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/31/news/economy/federal_worker_pay/index.htm

Same with USA today:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

1. A slightly different approach to BF first item. When this is over and everyone gets back pay; make it everyone except President and Congress. Know that they are really losing out every day that this drags on should get the talks going.

2. The government is the largest employer, take away their plans and make them participate in the same ones as the rest of America, ins., social security, etc. If it's great for us, it should be great for them.

3.
-------------- LOVE THIS!!!!

Red,
The figures I quoted came straight out of the USA Today article you linked to. It's the same one that MB Guy provided.

By the way, what's your brother's MOS? Does it provide a reasonable comparison to a private sector job?

fUbAr!

TARFU!

::Gesundheit::

There are private sector jobs that exist that do the same thing (if that is what you are asking because I am unsure what MOS means).

He gets paid a base salary, which is very good. Then when you include all of the benefits he receives: housing, healthcare, daycare (he has several children), reduced cost goods, hazard pay (he is in a combat zone - prayers plz), etc, not to mention the value of the training he received and the fact that age 44 (I think), he will receive an annuity for approximately 35 years (god willing) that will allow him to take another job and get 75-80% of pay. The PV of the annuity I estimated at $800,000.

What is a High 36 military pension worth?
Although the benefits gained from a lifetime military pension will differ based on the pay grade of the member upon retirement, I’ll provide two examples of the worth of a lifetime military pension.

(The following calculations assume the following: High 36 retirement plan, began service at age 22, served for 20 years, and national average life expectancy of 78.4 years.)

The typical officer: The typical officer who retires in 2010 as an O-4 with 20 years of active duty service will receive $2,523,817 total over the next 34 years.
The typical enlisted member: The typical enlisted member who retires in 2010 as an E-7 with 20 years of active duty service will receive $1,465,308.00 total over the next 34 years.

http://www.moneycrashers.com/military-retirement-pay-pension-benefits/

I don't think comparing the job of an active duty Marine, (thank him for his service), as the average government job to the job in the private sector is at all fair. Those are apples to oranges. If you want to compare the GS-12 Govt Employee accountant to the Accountant in the private sector that would be an accurate and fair comparison.

The individual choices and freedoms that we have as employees in government jobs and private sector jobs are much greater than those of Active Duty Military.

I did a bunch of research on this subject last night and I can tell you that there are a ton of studies out there. Some say private sector pays more some say the gov't pays more.

Most studies say the Fed. Gov't pays more. Almost every study also compared benefits seperately. All but one I have read said Gov't benefits were better. None of the studies take into account the benefit of being difficult to be terminated or the union advantage.

I think the survey that Ed listed is probably a good comparison of strict salary. But for the jobs that have pensions there is no comparison. The value of the pension annuity at present value can be in the millions (see the moneycrashers link).

I think the Heritage Foundation study was the most thorough. They said that the Gov't had the best pay and benefits.

I hate to say but other than ranting on the news I have not noticed the shutdown yet. I am sure it's effects will reach some one I know soon but not yet.

I think the American people are possibly realizing that maybe we don't need some of these things.

I ran into it early on. Can't apply for OFAC licenses, DDTC licenses or export classifications.

Can't refer customer to FTC website for forms and additional info. on identity theft.

My partner is teaching a graduate level class in health policy and politics. Entire syllabus has to be revamped because students can't complete their assignments -- reference websites are shut down, government offices unavailable for student interviews and research, etc.

I'm told that we have a customer wanting to open a business account who can't get an EIN through the IRS.gov site. But then I get told a lot a things....

Anyone bought milk lately?????

bought milk yesterday...why? chocolate and white (i'm biracial in my milk selections)

I don't understand shutting down the government websites. Had a hard time looking up an NAICS code the other day, had to go to a non-government site. It's not like there is some guy sitting there waiting to type in a code who then looks it up and posts it to a website - the darn things are automated. Most of the time they don't update government sites anyway so what's the difference.

Idiots, the whole lot of them. ::Grumble Grumble Grumble::

I purchased milk too. Seemed fine to me.

Can you send me a couple of gallons???? Seriously, milk is up over a dollar a gallon. Need to switch my kids to gas with their b'fast cereals!

The chatter in our lobby this am was that it was shutdown related.

And, yes, there are no new EINs for a bit. Fun, isn't it?

Want some proof of how the govt wastes countless taxpayer funds and could use a little trimming, see the five articles below. And, how many different departments exhibit similar behavior, even at lesser levels? Just more proof that the Fed Govt needs reigned in, to say the least:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/bureaucrat...article/2536649

http://washingtonexaminer.com/reckless-spending-goes-straight-to-the-top-at-fmcs/article/2536695

http://washingtonexaminer.com/part-three...article/2536768

http://washingtonexaminer.com/part-four-...article/2536808

http://washingtonexaminer.com/part-five-...article/2536886