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#1861164 - 10/11/13 08:40 PM CTR on cashed payroll checks
Alisha K Offline
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We have a farming business that the owner came in to cash 21 of their employee payroll checks signed by the employees and then countersigned by the owner. The total cash out was over $10,000.00. We would like guidance on how to file the CTR for this. The funds belong to the workers, but the owner was the one receiving the funds from us. We dont have information on all 21 employees. How would we file?

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#1861174 - 10/11/13 09:02 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
devsfan Offline
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You will not like the answer, but you need all of the information on the 21 employees since each of them needs to be shown as a person on the CTR (Box 2b) and you will also show the owner with Box 2c and also checking Box 3 for him. Next time you might want to reconsider doing this.

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#1861186 - 10/11/13 09:34 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
WonderWoman Offline
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gone fishin'
Some previous threads:

Post1753851

Post1709962

Post1661342
Last edited by WonderWoman; 10/11/13 09:38 PM.
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#1861287 - 10/14/13 04:11 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks devsfan
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Your best case scenario is that your customer is cashing his employee's checks because they are working here illegally and do not have identification that would allow them to cash their own checks.

That's the best case scenario. The others are worse. If you allow it, then your bank is simply complicit.
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#1862074 - 10/16/13 08:40 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
Alisha K Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2
Thank you for your responses. I was hoping that filing had changed for this situation. I had read previous posts and didn't like results. Anyhow, these workers have previously cashed checks here in the past, but their employer needed to keep them working and offered to cash their checks for them as a courtesy to them. I did get ahold of Fincen and they did tell me that I had to list all employees with info that I had for them, which was their names and addresses. For their TIN, DOB, and ID, I just had to mark unknown. I marked 2c (person on whose behalf transaction was conducted) for each employee and their check amounts rounded up. I marked 2b (person conducting transaction for another) for the owner, multiple transactions, and the grand total cash out amount rounded up. I hope maybe this post will help another person stuck in our shoes. And, yes, I don't see a next time in our future, what a hassle.

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#1862081 - 10/16/13 08:52 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
John Burnett Online
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I have suggested in the past that if a bank finds itself confronted by this situation more than once for a particular business customer, the bank ought to have a "heart-to-heart" with the customer and explain that you won't accept these transactions in the future unless the person with the bundle of paychecks brings in a detailed list of each and every payee with all the required CTR information for every one of them.

An even better suggestion is to push direct deposit (if appropriate) or just disallow the practice.
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#1863739 - 10/22/13 05:25 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
BrendaC Offline
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Payroll cards is another option and may better accommodate his employee needs since I suspect some do not have traditional banking relationships.
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#1878879 - 12/16/13 05:24 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
CantBeShocked Offline
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Question - if they are exempt Phase II but NOT for payroll purposes, you still have to file the CTR because you are aware that it is for payroll - right?

Thank you.
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#1878882 - 12/16/13 05:27 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
rlcarey Online
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An exemption will not apply. The cashing of payroll checks is not on behalf of the business, it is on behalf of the individuals.
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#1878884 - 12/16/13 05:30 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
CantBeShocked Offline
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That's what I thought - thanks !
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#2102687 - 10/12/16 04:14 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
banjo Offline
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Posts: 288
I was researching this subject and came across this thread. Does FinCEN Ruling 2000-1 not apply to this situation and require the CTR only on the business?

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/administrative_ruling/fincenruling2000-1.pdf

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#2102770 - 10/13/16 09:45 AM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks banjo
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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The "fishing boat" ruling is repeatedly acknowledged in the prior threads linked by Wonder Woman above. It is also referenced post 2101320 in a current thread that plows the same field.

In my opinion, the most nonsensical rulings FinCEN ever issued are:

* Armored car I,
* Sole proprietorship I, and
* the fishing boat.

As suggested by the "I," FinCEN ultimately corrected the first two.

As noted repeatedly in all of the threads linked above, the practice of cashing multiple payroll checks for a single person facilitates:

* human trafficking,
* padded payrolls, and
* employment of undocumented workers.

Any interpretation that the CTR does not need to include the information on all payees when the conductor is clearly acting as an agent on their behalf reflects an amount of naiveté that cannot be rivaled outside the Beltway.
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