Page 1 of 2 1 2
Thread Options
#1869166 - 11/07/13 12:36 AM HO Counseling List/Form
Mel in WA Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,096
Are form vendors providing a new "form" that can be used to disclose the homeownership counseling organization list? I haven't seen a thing from mine.

Also, how often do we have to view the HUD site (portal) to make sure the list is updated?

Return to Top
HOEPA and Homeowner Counseling Rule
#1869167 - 11/07/13 01:03 AM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
rlcarey Offline
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 75,723
Galveston, TX
Sorry, can't answer the vendor question.

A bank has to provide a list that was effective within the last 30 days.

§ 1024.20 List of homeownership counseling organizations.

(a) Provision of list. (1) The list of homeownership counseling organizations distributed to each loan applicant under this section shall be obtained no earlier than 30 days prior to the time when the list is provided to the loan applicant from either:......."
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top
#1869360 - 11/07/13 04:40 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
King of Gray Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
NE
Can I piggy back off this question...The new homeownership list disclosure is required under RESPA 1024.20. On 10/23, clarification was provided in Reg. Z 1026.34 that pre-counseling disclosure is required prior to closing whether RESPA applied or not (assuming we're talking about a high cost loan of course).

Is this another oversight or have I missed something...I don't have to provide a homeownship list after application for non-RESPA loans but I do have to get pre-counseling disclosure prior to closing??? How is an applicant going to know where to go if I'm not required to provide them a list.
Last edited by King of Gray; 11/07/13 04:41 PM.
Return to Top
#1869376 - 11/07/13 04:49 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
rlcarey Offline
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 75,723
Galveston, TX
I guess I'm lost. How can you have a high costs mortgage loan not subject to RESPA?
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top
#1869387 - 11/07/13 05:02 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
King of Gray Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
NE
We lend primarily to the ag community...So we do have consumer purpose loans (i.e., purchase a primary dwelling) that can be on parcel of lands over 25 acres.

10/23 interim rule page 63000,

"To address these concerns, this interim final rule amends § 1026.34(a)(5) to require that counseling for high-cost loans that are not covered by either RESPA or section 1026.40 must occur after the consumer receives the HOEPA disclosure required under § 1026.32(c)."

Return to Top
#1869571 - 11/07/13 09:23 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
Mel in WA Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,096
OK - Just to make sure I'm understanding....

We have to review the HUD website and make sure our list is current every 30 days?!?

Return to Top
#1869649 - 11/08/13 05:04 AM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

10K Club
Kathleen O. Blanchard
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 21,277
Originally Posted By: Mel in WA
OK - Just to make sure I'm understanding....

We have to review the HUD website and make sure our list is current every 30 days?!?


Depending upon the extent of your coverage area, it just might make sense to pull a fresh list/lists every thirty days because you must use the current version. No one is saying do a line by line comparison, just pull new lists.
_________________________
Kathleen O. Blanchard, CRCM "Kaybee"
HMDA/CRA Training/Consulting/Mapping
The HMDA Academy
www.kaybeescomplianceinsights.com

Return to Top
#1869846 - 11/08/13 06:44 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
Mel in WA Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,096
This has probably been asked before, but if I have 25 organizations in my market area do I have to list all 25? Or, can I choose one in each county?

Return to Top
#1869856 - 11/08/13 06:49 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
rlcarey Offline
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 75,723
Galveston, TX
IMHO, I would not be arbitrarily culling the official list.
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top
#1869951 - 11/08/13 08:49 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
King of Gray Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
NE
Just realized the language I put in my post answered my question. Feeling stupid. It's Friday. Cheers everyone

Return to Top
#1869960 - 11/08/13 08:53 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
King of Gray Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 49
NE
...And by the way...You are only required to provide a list of 10. The CFPB website that just came out will only provide you a list of 10...So that shouldn't be a concern unless your develop your own tool to create the list.

Return to Top
#1876633 - 12/06/13 02:20 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
TLC.17 Offline
New Poster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 23
I'd like to jump in on this and ask a question: "Can I piggy back off this question...The new homeownership list disclosure is required under RESPA 1024.20. On 10/23, clarification was provided in Reg. Z 1026.34 that pre-counseling disclosure is required prior to closing whether RESPA applied or not (assuming we're talking about a high cost loan of course)." Do we ONLY give the pre-counseling list to high cost loans or to ALL loans?? I thought this was only for high cost mortgages and it appears as above as well so wanted to verify!! Thank you!
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#1876644 - 12/06/13 02:43 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
rlcarey Offline
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 75,723
Galveston, TX
RESPA requires the list to be provided on all loans. Regulation Z outlines when counseling is actually required to be obtained prior to loan closing.
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top
#1876645 - 12/06/13 02:43 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
TLC.17 Offline
New Poster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 23
Ok - thank you!
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#1878681 - 12/13/13 09:53 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
Rubaiyat Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,373
Lido Deck
I don't know if anyone has actually contacted any of the homeownership counseling agencies on your list, but we did and here is what we found:

1. First agency's contact number was a fax number. No office phone number available.

2. Second agency closed 1 1/2 years ago. We were finally transferred by phone to an affiliate agency 175 miles away.

3. Third agency only provides counseling if the loan is being obtained through their agency. They have been trying to get removed from the list for a year.

4. Fourth agency said there is no documentation required i.e., GFE, etc. Also said the counseling consists of a 4-hour class where an 8-chapter book is reviewed and includes a pre-test and a post-test the applicant must pass to receive certification.

5. Remaining agencies were all at least 60 miles away.

If you haven't checked into the agencies on the list for your area, you may want to so you know what your applicants may be up against.
_________________________
--A bad day at sea is better than a good day at work.

Return to Top
#1878792 - 12/16/13 02:57 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
trout22 Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 313
Wow - that's a bit concerning. Thanks for sharing - good tip!

Return to Top
#1878850 - 12/16/13 04:46 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
RR Joker Offline
10K Club
RR Joker
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,634
The Swamp
Nice.
_________________________
My opinion only. Not legal advice.

Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour

Return to Top
#1879013 - 12/16/13 08:08 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form RR Joker
Sinatra Fan Offline
Power Poster
Sinatra Fan
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,568
New Jersey
Let's get the Affordable Care Act web site people working on that right away. eek
_________________________
Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. Peter Drucker

Return to Top
#1880020 - 12/18/13 08:21 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
Mel in WA Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,096
My document vendor has just provided a sample Homeownership Counseling Notice. Below is the content of the notice:

"Housing counseling agencies approved by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) can offer independent advice about whether a particular set of mortgage loan terms is a good fit based on your objectives and circumstances, often at little or no cost.

If you are interested in contacting a HUD-approved housing counseling agency in your area, you can visit the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) website, www.consumerfinance.gov/find-a-housing-counselor, and enter your zip code.

You can also access HUD's housing counseling agency website via www.consumerfinance.gov/mortgagehelp.

For additional assistance with locating a housing counseling agency, call the CFPB at 1-855-411-CFPB (2372)".

This brings up a few questions....

1) Can we just provide information on where to find the counseling agency in your area? I thought we had to actually provide the name, address, etc. of the agencies rather than pointing the applicant to this information.

2) The form contains signature lines so the applicant(s) can acknowledge receipt. Are we required to gather signatures?

Return to Top
#1880046 - 12/18/13 08:56 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
raitchjay Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,408
OK
1) My understanding is the same as yours....provide the list of the 10 counselors closest to their area, not just give them something that basically says "here, find one yourself".

2) No signature requirement that i'm aware of.
_________________________
I'm fixin' to fix that.

Return to Top
#1880145 - 12/19/13 12:07 AM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
Mel in WA Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,096
Unfortunately, I feel the same raitchjay......I'm so mad at my doc vendor right now!

Return to Top
#1880353 - 12/19/13 08:08 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
Mel in WA Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,096
I contacted our doc vendor to express my concerns about this notice. They replied with the bulletin below:

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/20131...equirements.pdf

Can we implement a procedure/document knowing it does not comply with the reg? Does a CFPB bulletin give us a "pass" when this process is audited? If yes, for how long?

The whole thing makes me a bit uncomfortable.....

Return to Top
#1880355 - 12/19/13 08:14 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
manimal Offline
Diamond Poster
manimal
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,207
Deleted
It seems like institutions who are working to implement a list via their document systems can use that 'other' notice as posted by Mel above (for 6 months??). But if you aren't doing that, then I'd be printing the list itself using the cfpb site.
_________________________
We're all here 'cause we've lost control.

Innerpartysystem

Return to Top
#1880612 - 12/20/13 04:55 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
trout22 Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 313
I thought they added a third option, or maybe more appropriately a subsection with a 'temporary exemption' to the second option, where a lender could provide the 'here go find it yourself' notice while they were in the process of making programming changes to their system in order to produce the compliant notice.

-> Sorry, I wasn't on the last page of posts, and it looks like you had already addressed this - but the following information shows where CFPB will give you a pass while you're developing your systems.
Last edited by trout22; 12/20/13 05:03 PM. Reason: update
Return to Top
#1880613 - 12/20/13 04:59 PM Re: HO Counseling List/Form Mel in WA
trout22 Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 313
From the CFPB Bulletin 2013-13 dated November 8th, 2013:

"... Accordingly, while lenders are incorporating § 1024.20(a)(1)(ii) list instructions into their systems, they may direct borrowers to the Bureau’s housing counseling agency website to obtain a list of housing counselors, using the format and text suggested below, www.consumerfinance.gov/find-a-housing-counselor. These steps, if taken by lenders in good faith while they are building their systems or are working with vendors to build systems, would achieve the goals of the regulation and would not raise supervisory or enforcement concerns..."

From there, the 2nd page is the 'model language' to be used for the interim procedure:

“Housing counseling agencies approved by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) can offer independent advice about whether a particular set of mortgage loan terms is a good fit based on your objectives and circumstances, often at little or no cost.

If you are interested in contacting a HUD-approved housing counseling agency in your area,
you can visit the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s (CFPB) website, www.consumerfinance.gov/find-a-housing-counselor, and enter your zip code.

You can also access HUD’s housing counseling agency website via www.consumerfinance.gov/mortgagehelp.

For additional assistance with locating a housing counseling agency, call the CFPB at 1-855-411-CFPB (2372).”

Return to Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2