Skip to content
BOL Conferences
Thread Options
#1861164 - 10/11/13 08:40 PM CTR on cashed payroll checks
Alisha K Offline
New Poster
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2
We have a farming business that the owner came in to cash 21 of their employee payroll checks signed by the employees and then countersigned by the owner. The total cash out was over $10,000.00. We would like guidance on how to file the CTR for this. The funds belong to the workers, but the owner was the one receiving the funds from us. We dont have information on all 21 employees. How would we file?

Return to Top
BSA/AML/CIP/OFAC Forum
#1861174 - 10/11/13 09:02 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
devsfan Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,927
NYC
You will not like the answer, but you need all of the information on the 21 employees since each of them needs to be shown as a person on the CTR (Box 2b) and you will also show the owner with Box 2c and also checking Box 3 for him. Next time you might want to reconsider doing this.

Return to Top
#1861186 - 10/11/13 09:34 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
WonderWoman Offline
Diamond Poster
WonderWoman
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,108
gone fishin'
Some previous threads:

Post1753851

Post1709962

Post1661342
Last edited by WonderWoman; 10/11/13 09:38 PM.
_________________________
My opinions are my own, and not that of my employer.

Return to Top
#1861287 - 10/14/13 04:11 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks devsfan
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Your best case scenario is that your customer is cashing his employee's checks because they are working here illegally and do not have identification that would allow them to cash their own checks.

That's the best case scenario. The others are worse. If you allow it, then your bank is simply complicit.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#1862074 - 10/16/13 08:40 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
Alisha K Offline
New Poster
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2
Thank you for your responses. I was hoping that filing had changed for this situation. I had read previous posts and didn't like results. Anyhow, these workers have previously cashed checks here in the past, but their employer needed to keep them working and offered to cash their checks for them as a courtesy to them. I did get ahold of Fincen and they did tell me that I had to list all employees with info that I had for them, which was their names and addresses. For their TIN, DOB, and ID, I just had to mark unknown. I marked 2c (person on whose behalf transaction was conducted) for each employee and their check amounts rounded up. I marked 2b (person conducting transaction for another) for the owner, multiple transactions, and the grand total cash out amount rounded up. I hope maybe this post will help another person stuck in our shoes. And, yes, I don't see a next time in our future, what a hassle.

Return to Top
#1862081 - 10/16/13 08:52 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
I have suggested in the past that if a bank finds itself confronted by this situation more than once for a particular business customer, the bank ought to have a "heart-to-heart" with the customer and explain that you won't accept these transactions in the future unless the person with the bundle of paychecks brings in a detailed list of each and every payee with all the required CTR information for every one of them.

An even better suggestion is to push direct deposit (if appropriate) or just disallow the practice.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top
#1863739 - 10/22/13 05:25 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
BrendaC Offline
Power Poster
BrendaC
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,029
Sweet Home AL
Payroll cards is another option and may better accommodate his employee needs since I suspect some do not have traditional banking relationships.
_________________________
Life without Jesus is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point.

Return to Top
#1878879 - 12/16/13 05:24 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
CantBeShocked Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 260
MS
Question - if they are exempt Phase II but NOT for payroll purposes, you still have to file the CTR because you are aware that it is for payroll - right?

Thank you.
_________________________
]

Return to Top
#1878882 - 12/16/13 05:27 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
rlcarey Online
10K Club
rlcarey
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 83,227
Galveston, TX
An exemption will not apply. The cashing of payroll checks is not on behalf of the business, it is on behalf of the individuals.
_________________________
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer: PPDocs.com

Return to Top
#1878884 - 12/16/13 05:30 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
CantBeShocked Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 260
MS
That's what I thought - thanks !
_________________________
]

Return to Top
#2102687 - 10/12/16 04:14 PM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks Alisha K
banjo Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 299
I was researching this subject and came across this thread. Does FinCEN Ruling 2000-1 not apply to this situation and require the CTR only on the business?

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/administrative_ruling/fincenruling2000-1.pdf

Return to Top
#2102770 - 10/13/16 09:45 AM Re: CTR on cashed payroll checks banjo
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
The "fishing boat" ruling is repeatedly acknowledged in the prior threads linked by Wonder Woman above. It is also referenced post 2101320 in a current thread that plows the same field.

In my opinion, the most nonsensical rulings FinCEN ever issued are:

* Armored car I,
* Sole proprietorship I, and
* the fishing boat.

As suggested by the "I," FinCEN ultimately corrected the first two.

As noted repeatedly in all of the threads linked above, the practice of cashing multiple payroll checks for a single person facilitates:

* human trafficking,
* padded payrolls, and
* employment of undocumented workers.

Any interpretation that the CTR does not need to include the information on all payees when the conductor is clearly acting as an agent on their behalf reflects an amount of naiveté that cannot be rivaled outside the Beltway.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top

Moderator:  Andy_Z