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#190704 - 05/18/04 10:45 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

But now what will they do since he no longer works there if they found out. Will the still be leaniant. Or will he be arrested because he is no longer an employee.

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Security - PUBLIC
#190705 - 05/19/04 03:27 AM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Rocky P Online
Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,650
Florida
This discussion started almost 4 days ago. There have been many recommendations, all indicating that management should be advised. IMHO, I would suggest that instead of talking and trying to justify the feelings of the "What If", that you march into someone's office and say that "I heard - saw - understand that, etc." It's hard, but the step needs to be taken, or dismissed. The situation is not going to change for the better.

It is hard to rat on someone, but the longer you wait, the harder it is going to be, and the less credability you will have without being questioned yourself for covering up the incident. Most Codes of Conducts require that employees bring thefts/defalcations, etc. to appropriate management's attention.

You know what is right - Good Luck.
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Integrity. With it, nothing else matters. Without it, nothing else matters.

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#190706 - 05/19/04 11:59 AM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
RBanker Offline
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RBanker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,675
Austin Texas
My feeling has always been that my loyalty is to the institutiont for which I work. And if I can point out an area in which the bank is 'losing' money, then it is my responsibility.
At our bank, procedures require to employees to approve tickets debiting the GL and that's basically what your former co-worker did. Even though some posters have preached a no harm-no fould attitude - based on the NSF fee scenario presented here - if the employee found it so easy to do, what's to say that at some point he/she wouldn't transfer funds to which they had no right into their account. I think it would also be helpful for the Audit team to realize that there are a lack of controls, etc.
Again, I think our loyalty belongs to the institution for which we work, no matter how much we love some of our co-workers - there comes a time that they have to be responsible for the actions that they took.

Besides, if it wasn't that big of a deal, why didn't he just go to a supervisor to have the fees refunded - that fact that he did it himself (a really huge no-no at any bank I've worked for - you are never to do any transactions on your own account) should tell us something.

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#190707 - 05/19/04 12:55 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Even though some posters have preached a no harm-no fould attitude - based on the NSF fee scenario presented here - if the employee found it so easy to do, what's to say that at some point he/she wouldn't transfer funds to which they had no right into their account.




I'm not sure, but if this is referring to my statement that it may not be stealing and may not be prosecuted, I was not saying "no harm no foul." I specifically said I thought they should be terminated in the circumstance I theorized. Just clarifying, b/c I don't remember anything on this thread arguing that it wasn't a serious problem.

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#190708 - 05/19/04 05:21 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Michelle III Offline
Gold Star
Michelle III
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 379
PA
If you're not comfortable coming right out to management and saying "I think he did this", then maybe you could inform audit anonymously to audit his account for these refunded fees.

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#190709 - 05/19/04 06:51 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

Good idea Michelle! Over the years I have seen anonomous memos be put in both audit and human resource mailboxes.

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#190710 - 05/19/04 07:49 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Beagles22 Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,626
State of confusion
I think that is a great idea. It keeps your name out of it. But it will also give the management of the bank the knowledge that maybe there is an easy theft opportunity for workers in this area. We have to have those type of refunds from our GL signed by 1 employee and 1 officer. Never 1 signature.
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#190711 - 05/19/04 10:30 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Paragon Offline
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Paragon
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,164
If you're not comfortable coming right out to management and saying "I think he did this", then maybe you could inform audit anonymously to audit his account for these refunded fees.




I also agree with Michelle's suggestion - anonymous report will be best for all concerned, including you. You've waiting way too long on this and now, depending on how management will view this delay, you may feel at best uncomfortable within a face to face on this issue.

Move forward with this suggestion - it will help all of us in that your 'friend' should not be in the banking world and you don't need to think about this - and you will if it's not reported.

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#190712 - 05/24/04 02:22 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

A bank your size probably has an Audit Division. I would report this to them and let them begin an investigation. The employee, if the information is true would most likely be terminated. The bank according to FinCen must file a Suspicious Activity Report on the employee. If I were you I would report it, if nothing more than as an animosity caller. Who knows the $900.00 may just be the tip of the iceberg.

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#190713 - 05/24/04 04:21 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
HMS Pippii Offline
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HMS Pippii
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,636
snorkeling in warm, clear wate...
Issues like this indicate a real need in every bank for a whistleblower policy that's well-communicated by senior management to every employee with absolute assurance of anonymity. Nobody likes being a rat, but everyone sleeps better if they do the right thing - make it easy for them to do it without worrying about the perceived wrath of their co-workers. We've told our bankers to tell Internal Audit, we'll "find" it in an audit, and if it's a legitimate situation, we'll quietly slip them movie tickets
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#190714 - 06/03/04 11:21 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Dana Turner Offline

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Dana Turner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 543
Pipe Creek TX - U.S.
Folks:

Thanks to all of you who participated in this thread. If anyone ever asks you about "what is a thread?" -- THIS is a thread!
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Celebrating 42 entertaining years of crime . . .
danaturner@email.com

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#190715 - 06/04/04 09:15 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

I have a strong feeling that the fees being refunded are not his own; however, either scenario would make him untrustworthy. I think that the issue you need to contend with is whether or not YOU want to fall into the same category. The Bank Secrecy Act requires all instances of defalcation/embezzelment to be reported in a Suspicious Activity Report...regardless of the amount. By not reporting the activity, you are in direct violation of the Act (willful blindness). As you know (or should since you work for a bank), penalties for non-compliance are stiff (monetary fines and prison time for ANYONE involved). I'm not trying to scare you into doing what is right...you have to decide whether you are part of the problem or part of the solution. Would you want this individual working for you? Would you want him handling your account(s)? Right now, he's only funneling money from the overdraft fees account (as far as you know anyway)...what happens when he decides to start accessing customer accounts? Your bank's reputation is at stake, and whether you like it or not...your community associates your name (as an employee) with the name of the bank.

Tough decision?? I don't really think so.

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#190716 - 06/05/04 12:46 AM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
HRH Dawnie Offline
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HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
To the original poster and those who supported paying back the bank, etc.

What kind of "friend" steals money from a bank? Would you trust them with your wallet unattended? Do you need friends who steel?

At the banks where I've worked I would be fired for knowing, and allowing the crime to continue to take place. I would HIGHLY suggest you report this person, and then spend some time finding some higher quality friends. Friends who steel are going to hurt you some day. This one told you of his crime. HE INVOLVED YOU IN IT WHEN HE TOLD YOU!! He assumes your morals are as low as his if he expects you to keep your mouth shut.

Is this really where you want to place your loyalty? The complete lack of respect he showed to you in sharing his crime would be enough for him to be off my list instantly! Why is he not off of yours?
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CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

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#190717 - 06/05/04 12:19 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

As I've sat here and read this, I realized how much I have to learn. The first thing I wanted to question about the original post is "How does this employee refund overdraft into his accout"?? I haven't been in banking long enough, but I don't see in the system we use how that can be possible. Secondly, wouldn't that type of transaction show up on someone's report somewhere? Like I said.. I'm new at this banking thing. I'm still trying to figure out how the employee is suppose to have done this.

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#190718 - 06/05/04 06:05 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
JacF Offline

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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
Quote:

"How does this employee refund overdraft into his accout"?? I haven't been in banking long enough, but I don't see in the system we use how that can be possible.


Your system probably matches your login information to your CIF information, and is programmed to prevent you from completing transactions on your own account. This is a very good, very effective, and (IMHO) very necessary system control.

Quote:

Secondly, wouldn't that type of transaction show up on someone's report somewhere?


It should. But we don't know what type of reports the original poster's system generates, who reviews employee activity and/or employee accounts, or how often.

As you have noted, this gives all of us something to think about, and something to learn from.

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#190719 - 06/08/04 01:12 AM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Susan T Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 97
Washington (State)
Anyone who doesn't already have an anonymous whistle-blower system set up should read this thread.

In my company, a quick login to EthicsPoint would have allowed Angry to point the powers-that-be in the right direction anonymously.

I agree with everyone who said this person needs to be reported. As an industry, our integrity is out greatest asset. We all have to protect it.
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#190720 - 06/08/04 01:56 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

You Know it Shocks me that you would even ask such a question and not go Right to your Mananger and report this.
Please do this Favor for all of us GET OUT OF THE BANKING WORLD !

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#190721 - 06/13/04 06:41 AM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

If the bank does intend to prosecute it is important to bring in people that specialize in this. The handling of evidence is crucial when any investigation of computer forensincs is involved in order to ensure that the evidence is admissable in court. If you have any questions or need help feel free to give me a call.

(Contact Tobi@bankersonline.com for advertising information.)
Last edited by Andy Z; 06/15/04 02:40 AM.
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#190722 - 06/14/04 10:46 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Fraudman CFCI Offline
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Fraudman CFCI
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,189
Land of Steady Habits
I don't think this is a proper forum for "free" marketing or making cold calls!

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#190723 - 06/16/04 11:03 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Anonymous
Unregistered

WHAT??? I just read this thread and I'm surprised that any banker would be surprised that she would be prosecuted. As stated earlier, if the banking industry has nothing else, it must have integrity, and yes, this is stealing. And yes, she definitely should be terminated, make restitution and be prosecuted barring extreme extinuating circumstances.

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#190724 - 06/18/04 03:07 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
blvsinangels Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 372
I agree, over my banking 'years' unfortunately we have had several employees steal in various ways. SAR's were filed on all, a couple agreed to pay back the money and we did not prosecute, a couple did not and went to jail.

The one post that concerned me the most thoughout this thread was the one that kept saying, 'well what if they pay it back before anyone noticed?'---too late, someone already noticed and should report it. Any just because you pay it back does not 'erase' your taking it in the first place. Stealing is stealing, stealing and getting away with it, in my experiences, leads to bigger stealing. No excuses, no I didn't mean to hurt anyone, no but I'm really really sorry, wrong is wrong.

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#190725 - 06/18/04 03:15 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
AnnL Offline
Gold Star
AnnL
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 334
Western PA
My husband works in retail and had a manager he caught stealing from one of the stores. The day they came to do their surprise audit to get the proof they needed, he told my husband "I knew that the worst that would happen is they would fire me." then he turned in his keys and left. The company never prosecuted employees for stealing, "it cost too much in legal fees" and the employees all knew it.
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#190726 - 06/18/04 03:26 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
JacF Offline

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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
Soapbox time

I don't understand why some organizations claim that it 'costs too much' to prosecute. Criminal prosecutions are handled by the police and the district attorney's office, who work for the good of society, and are paid out of public funds. I can understand not filing civil action in cases where the worth doesn't justify the cost. But in a criminal matter, I don't see how this line of thinking can ever make sense.

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#190727 - 06/18/04 04:04 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
Pup Offline
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Pup
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,045
Pedaling along a scenic highwa...
Good point, Jac.

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#190728 - 06/18/04 06:59 PM Re: Co-Worker Embezzleing
hunterath Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 43
Kansas
by 'costs too much' they (retailers) mean that not only will the loss prevention specialist, district manager, and other store employees have to leave work to testify (be deposed, interviewed, whatever), but they will also have to turn over inventory records to the courts which become public record which could harm competitive advantage. add to that the fact that the thief might not be convicted and then they would have to defend a malicious prosecution / wrongful termination lawsuit.

these risks are also present in the financial sector, but banks do place a great premium on integrity, so the 'costs' in this industry are perceived to be much lower compared to the 'benefits' of prosecution. not to mention the fact that banks keep WAY better records than retail establishments and it's really hard to get away with something once someone has been alerted to mischief.
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