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#193359 - 06/15/04 01:31 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Jun 2001
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You guys have convinced me of two things:
1) Shrek 2 is a very funny movie, but not as good as Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc., Toy Story I and II, or Shrek.
2) My little guys will not see this movie for some time to come.
My wife recently pulled a movie (Casper, I think) right out of the player about 5 minutes into it. You should have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth. You'd have thought we told them they can never have sweets again. They got over it.
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#193360 - 06/15/04 04:14 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Pedaling along a scenic highwa...
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Here is what may be considered a minority opinion but is one that I have given some consideration and have come, to a point, to embrace:
Sheltering a child (depending on age, of course) completely from hearing bad words, seeing bad images, etc. can cause these things to become such a novelty that when the child is inevitably exposed to them (by a friend, peer, etc.), they become "cool". I can say with great confidence that when my 10 yr. old daughter hears a word in a song that she knows she shouldn't say, she is embarassed and skips that line so she doesn't have to say the word. She doesn't swear, she doesn't treat people with disdain and she doesn't make lewd jokes, even though she has seen and heard these things done in movies over the years. Don't get me wrong, she's not watching pornography or anything like that, but even the shows on Disney have a little off-color humor, etc.
One way to relate this take on child-rearing is the PK syndrome (Preacher's Kid). Rebellion is often the response when a parent/parents expect a white-washed, secluded lifestyle from their children who live in a society where this is next to impossible to achieve.
Expose (carefully, of course) your children to some of the things that are not quite acceptable and use that to explain to them why it is not quite acceptable.
You can't teach your kids about saying no to drugs without telling them about drugs first.
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#193361 - 06/15/04 04:44 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Gold Star
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 455
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I respectfully disagree, and will use the last sentence to demonstrate. Quote:
You can't teach your kids about saying no to drugs without telling them about drugs first.
You don’t teach your children about drugs by exposing them to drugs, you tell them about the consequences of abusing drugs. You don’t teach your children about pornography by exposing them to pornography, you tell them about the consequences. You don’t teach your children about lewd jokes and swearing by exposing them to lewd jokes and swearing, your tell them about the consequences (washing their mouths out with soap is just one of the consequences in some households.)
Quote:
One way to relate this take on child-rearing is the PK syndrome (Preacher's Kid). Rebellion is often the response when a parent/parents expect a white-washed, secluded lifestyle from their children who live in a society where this is next to impossible to achieve.
Rebellion is also often the response when anyone is authority expects anything from children who live in a society where accountability is next to impossible to expect. Sometimes PK syndrome results not from the parents rules, but from society’s expectations from the “preacher’s kid.”
I believe it is important to teach your children accountability and consequences and follow through – even if this means turning off a movie, throwing away a magazine, forbidding children from playing with certain “friends.” Their learning will come from many sources – family, friends, movies, TV, neighbors. I will voice and act on my opinion before I will sit back and let something as insignificant as a movie, or something as overpowering as society, dictate the morals of my household.
(ok…I’ll get down off my soapbox now…) 
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#193362 - 06/15/04 05:01 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Jan 2002
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I'm not telling anyone how to raise their child but I do strongly feel washing a kids mouth out with soap or giving them a swat on the butt is cruel and unnecessary. Sure you get the results but at what cost. We as parents are here to PROTECT our children. We are not to be hitting them or forcing objects into their mouths.
I had my mouth washed out with soap once when I was a kid. I never said the word again, but I also never found out why I should not have said that word. I didn't see anything wrong with it until much later in life. I still resent my mother for washing my mouth our with soap.
Just my views.
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#193364 - 06/15/04 05:22 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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Quote:
Here is what may be considered a minority opinion but is one that I have given some consideration and have come, to a point, to embrace:
Sheltering a child (depending on age, of course) completely from hearing bad words, seeing bad images, etc. can cause these things to become such a novelty that when the child is inevitably exposed to them (by a friend, peer, etc.), they become "cool". I can say with great confidence that when my 10 yr. old daughter hears a word in a song that she knows she shouldn't say, she is embarassed and skips that line so she doesn't have to say the word. She doesn't swear, she doesn't treat people with disdain and she doesn't make lewd jokes, even though she has seen and heard these things done in movies over the years. Don't get me wrong, she's not watching pornography or anything like that, but even the shows on Disney have a little off-color humor, etc.
One way to relate this take on child-rearing is the PK syndrome (Preacher's Kid). Rebellion is often the response when a parent/parents expect a white-washed, secluded lifestyle from their children who live in a society where this is next to impossible to achieve.
Expose (carefully, of course) your children to some of the things that are not quite acceptable and use that to explain to them why it is not quite acceptable.
You can't teach your kids about saying no to drugs without telling them about drugs first.
Fraud Dog, I wish there were a way that I could more than completely disagree with you, but since there is not word that fully describes my disagreement, completely will have to do. The PK syndrome effects very few preacher's kids. Even those who rebel, tend to return to the values they were taught. That cannot be said for those who are exposed to disrepect, vulgarity, etc... at an early age. They tend to show disrespect and vulgarity. We can agree to disagree. I am sure you are a fine father.
Do you really think that I am secluding my kids? Trust me they are not secluded, but they are protected from TV, movies, other kids, etc, who teach values different from the ones I hold. I realize I cannot insulate them from this, but we will deal with that when it comes up through a lifetime of open communication without fear.
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Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city
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#193365 - 06/15/04 05:30 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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Quote:
I still resent my mother for washing my mouth our with soap.
I do not seek to make my kids resent me for disciplinary measures, but I will not alter my discipline merely because they resent it or me. Maybe those who resent the punishment or punisher are focusing too much on the punishment and not enough on the offense. However, if I punish my children without setting out the rules first, I should be resented. Unless I tell my child that a certain word is bad, I have no business punishing them for saying it--particularly if I exposed them to the word in the first place.
I'm betting your resentment is because your mom did not lay down the rules and the consequences first on this word. I may be wrong.
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#193366 - 06/15/04 05:49 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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10K Club
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
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well, when I gave my son the ol' dose of soap, he had been warned repeatedly that it could happen. My guess is:
a. He didn't think I'd do it, and
b. He had no idea how awful it would taste
And he's not resentful to this day, when I bring it up jokingly (He doesn't say those things anymore, I wonder why...).
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#193368 - 06/15/04 06:19 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,045
Pedaling along a scenic highwa...
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Not a Lawyer and Zaibatsu (interestingly enough, a lawyer):
My qualifier that the opinion was likely a minority opinion seems to be holding water.
When my daughter was very young (my first child), I was very strict in pretty EVERY aspect of the word. She obeyed me to a fault once she figured things out, but not for the right reasons. She wasn't learning "right" from "wrong", she was simply afraid of punishment. It was after she pretty much took to her mother for ALL of the care and fun, etc. that I realized that I was OVERparenting, which my mother did warn me about. I relaxed a bit and began to let my little girl live a little and make the mistakes I "sheltered" her from initially and the results have been phenomenal. There is an "earned" respect coming from her towards me now. There is a relationship between us that I fear would not have grown under the previous circumstances. Mostly, she has blossomed since then and her fears, anxieties and overreactions to things have calmed and she has become a very intelligent, rounded and level-headed young lady (as much as you want a 10 year old girl to be anyway). She's still a kid but has a wonderful ability to make the right decisions regarding right and wrong....without being told what is right and what is wrong. This is a skill that many lack and I connect that lacking to the OVERparenting that I was guilty of before.
Agreeing to disagree is a good idea when it comes to parenting for many reasons:
1)Z and I are very different people, I'm sure.
2)Z's kids and mine are very different people also, I'm sure.
3)Z's location and mine are very different and have different situations, social conditions, etc., I'm sure.
We all love our kids and will do what is necessary at our own expense to ensure that they grow up right and learn how to live in a world full of challenges. It seems, by the tone of this thread, that we are all individually doing what is right for our own children to blossom.
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#193369 - 06/15/04 06:33 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Quote:
I'm not telling anyone how to raise their child but I do strongly feel washing a kids mouth out with soap or giving them a swat on the butt is cruel and unnecessary.
Thanks for not telling me how to raise my child. I feel strongly that not disciplining your kid is cruel and irresponsible. Sure you get the results (a feeling of moral superiority, the chance to be "buddies" with your kid), but at what cost?
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#193372 - 06/15/04 07:02 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Reminds me of someting a parent once told me. They had the most wonderful first child and they thought they were doing everything right and that was why the child was so great. Then the second child came along and they did the same things. The second child was a terror! It was then that they realized that what they were doing had little to do with how wonderful their first child was. In fact, they learned that their first child was wonderful despite their efforts. With a new approach, they turned the second child around.
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#193374 - 06/15/04 07:07 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Quote:
Jokerman,
Don't make assumptions. I never said I don't discipline my children. I just don't us physical abuse (which I believe any form of hitting is) to do it.
When did I say you didn't discipline your child? I was just expressing my opinion, not telling anyone how to raise their child.
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#193375 - 06/15/04 07:11 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,045
Pedaling along a scenic highwa...
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Just out of curiousity - you mention that your daughter is doing pretty good with making choices about right and wrong without being told what is right and what is wrong. What standard defines "right" and "wrong" in your household?
A fair question and a difficult one to answer, to be sure. She is a caring child, first. She doesn't like to see people get hurt and is concerned when they do. She enjoys church and got upset when school was out for the Summer because she loves school. She is intelligent and has learned to not get sooooo stressed out over a math problem that it ruins her evening....and she has learned to ask for help when she needs it (she's a bit on the independent side!). She doesn't use profanity and points out when a song has a bad word in it saying that the song was really good except for that one line.
Jim, the question is more difficult to answer than I thought. Sorry. I'd say that she plays like a child and makes decisions like a young adult. She enjoys a happy medium that many kids her age don't, partly because she's got a good head on her shoulders, partly because we've done something right in "guiding" her rather than "ordering" her, and partly, no doubt, because she's been lucky. When I say that we allow her to make mistakes, please don't think that we just let her run amok and observe from a distance. That would be irresponsible!
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#193377 - 06/15/04 07:27 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Gold Star
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 474
Texas, USA
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My husband and I had an interesting conversation last night about the way we were raised by our own parents. I was taught a healthy, respectful fear of my parents. It was a great motivation for avoiding trouble. My husband told me that he never was taught that "fear" and he WISHES HE HAD BEEN!
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#193378 - 06/15/04 07:31 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Posts: 6,153
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Nikko--do you believe that spanking should be outlawed or found unconstitutional (cruel and unusual punishment)?
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#193379 - 06/15/04 07:50 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Soaring over Georgia
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FD/Jeremy: I appreciate your candor. Let me share with you that in my household the standard for "right" and "wrong" is very clear and easy to define. It is the Bible. Does that mean that everyone in my household adheres to every mandate of the Bible? No, not for one second. But it is still the standard that we all strive for in my family. It is what we use to teach our children what is "right" and what is "wrong." It also does not mean individual snippets of the Bible especially where taken out of context. We are not sacrificing lambs on our altar, because in the context of the entire Bible the requirement to do that was replaced when Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice for us all.
Disciplining our children is a key role as parents. Discipline is an often misused word. Some look at discipline as only punishment. In fact, much discipline can take place in a positive vein. Discipline can include positive verbal coaching before a behavior takes place and verbal reward and recognition after right behavior takes place. Even negative discipline doesn't only include spanking. Often it can be things like taking away priviledges or things of importance to the child for a time. The discipline should always match the offense. And discipline, in my opinion, should not leave out spanking or chastisement. But any form of discipline has to be consistent with your standard for right and wrong and consistently applied or else it is doomed to failure. And that means that you first must HAVE a defined standard of "right" and "wrong".
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#193382 - 06/15/04 08:29 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Nikko
I find your answer frightening! I suppose we should outlaw innoculations also, they really hurt. You should have seen how my poor daughter cried when the doctor poked her with those two needles today. It would have broken your heart. Sometimes what is good for us hurts a little.
MagicBanker is correct--discipline is not always physical and is not always negative.
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