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#193383 - 06/15/04 08:34 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Quote:
I would have to side with 'yes' it should be outlawed.
Nikko, how dare you - I can't believe you would try to impose your beliefs on me! You can't legislate morality, you know! What's right for you isn't necessarily right for me!
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#193384 - 06/15/04 08:35 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,991
Soaring over Georgia
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Quote:
In my OPINION I don't see why that question even needs to be asked. I don't see why a parent would physically hurt their child. I also don't see why they would want their child to be in fear of receiving physical pain if they do something "wrong". I never want my child to be afraid of me. But if you want a yes or no answer then I would have to side with 'yes' it should be outlawed.
As humans, we learn from pain. That pain may be physical, emotional, or psychological. Better that I as a parent use an infliction of controlled pain to teach my child so they won't have to suffer a worse uncontrolled pain later on. If a lesson can be taught without pain, so much the better. But not all lessons can be taught that way. And any punishment you mete out will lead to some level of pain. What makes inflicting emotional pain on your child by isolating them from their friends any less traumatic than the physical pain of a spanking? Are you advocating no punishment at all?
No, I don't want my child to fear me. And believe me, I know what I'm talking about here. I grew up in a physically abusive home where I was very, very afraid of my father. Chastisement, done in a correct manner at appropriate times, does not lead to a fear emotion. And again, chastisement is only one of many tools in the arsenal of an informed parent to discipline their children.
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Jim Bedsole, CRCM, CBA, CFSA, CAFP
My posts - my opinions
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#193385 - 06/15/04 08:39 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Gold Star
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 455
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Quote:
The discipline should always match the offense.
Just because I like to pick nits  I read an article that addressed this, albeit from a very specific and narrow perspective. (background) A parent was concerned with how to change a specific behavior in one of her children. When entering the house from coming home from school, the child would drop his backpack, coat and shoes in the middle of the floor and proceed to live the life of a 10-year old (“Can I have a snack”, video games, homework, whatever comes to mind). The parent had tried numerous times to convince the child to pick up his things including different types of punishment (threats of grounding, etc). In the end, the parent was given advice to ground the child to his bed for the remainder of the afternoon when it happened again.
Now for the article.
The article began with the parent writing back in to argue about the advice saying it was “unfair” and did not “match the offense.” The author responded back without any sympathy and said that the end goal in this case was not to punish the child, but to correct the behavior.
Mind, this should not be applied to all situations, just those that make sense. Too bad common sense is so difficult to pin down and describe… 
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#193388 - 06/15/04 08:49 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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That is our own choice to make.
How can you say this and at the same time say it should be outlawed?
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Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city
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#193390 - 06/15/04 08:53 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Posts: 5,991
Soaring over Georgia
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If you spank them for spilling milk or any other thing they do "wrong" (exept something that may harm them or others) you are not protecting them. Therefore, I find it wrong.
Spilling milk is in itself neither "right" nor "wrong". It is morally neutral. However, if you had instructed your child to stop throwing a ball across the table, and the child continued and as a result spilled the milk, this is "wrong" and should be punished. Is chastisement the appropriate punishment? Maybe and maybe not. It depends on a lot of variables. But Nikko, you didn't answer the question as to why parental infliction of controlled emotional pain is preferable to parental infliction of controlled physical pain.
_________________________
Jim Bedsole, CRCM, CBA, CFSA, CAFP
My posts - my opinions
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#193391 - 06/15/04 09:05 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
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My husband and I had an interesting conversation last night about the way we were raised by our own parents. I was taught a healthy, respectful fear of my parents. It was a great motivation for avoiding trouble. My husband told me that he never was taught that "fear" and he WISHES HE HAD BEEN!
One of the main reasons that kids are bringing guns to school, shoplifting, shooting their friends, etc. etc. is the proliferation of two ideas. First, the idea that disciplining your child with a spanking is abusive. It worked for CENTURIES, and frankly, I hold to the biblical proverb "He that spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly" (Proverbs 13:24).
What is abusive is raising children who do not have a healthy respect for their parents, and who, NO ignore them. How well do "time outs" really work? That depends on whether you think being sent to your room actually is effective punishment. The only effect it has is that the parent avoids disciplining their child.
The second problem plaguing the nation is the fact that people no longer hold fast to a concept of objective moral theory. Too many people seem to think that there is no right or wrong, only situational ethics. Guess what, murder is always wrong, taking a gun to school is always wrong, but because we lack strong ethics in this country now it happens far too frequently.
I was raised in a household where when I screwed up as a young child, I was given a light spanking. When I was old enough to really understand the concepts of right/wrong and crime/punishment, the severity of the spanking increased. In fact, I was allowed to go out back and pick the switch that would be used to discipline me. I remember quite well that if my Father and Mother said not to do something, I would face serious consequences if I ignored their wishes or did the wrong thing. I recently had a discussion with my father about this, and and he laughed at me, telling me that although I remember him telling me to pick the switch often, he rarely USED it. The walk out back to decide what kind of spanking I wanted gave me time to consider what I had done. I would then take the switch to my room and await my punishment. Both my father and mother told me that the knowledge and threat of being whipped were more than enough to keep me doing the right thing. It worked as a deterrant to doing bad things when I knew if I did them I would get a whipping.
What's funny about this is that according to my father, my mother, AND my grandmother, I was never spanked with any "weapon", and I was never spanked hard. But knowing it could happen worked.
I pity children who aren't brought up with at least some fear and respect for their parents. Parents who are their children's friends are good parents. Parents who are their children's BUDDIES are horrible parents.
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#193392 - 06/15/04 09:06 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Power Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
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Quote:
Quote:
I would have to side with 'yes' it should be outlawed.
Nikko, how dare you - I can't believe you would try to impose your beliefs on me! You can't legislate morality, you know! What's right for you isn't necessarily right for me!
Yes, what's right is right. We DO legislate morality (no murder, no theft, etc. etc.) Sorry to burst your bubble.
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#193393 - 06/15/04 09:08 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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In our house spankings are only for direct defiance/direct disobedience/smart mouth responses. No other offenses in the house is a spanking offense. Mistakes are not punishable. Failure to perform chores etc... are not spanking offenses--those are rather opportunities for teaching responsibility.
_________________________
Better a patient man than a warrior, a man who controls his temper than one who takes a city
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#193394 - 06/15/04 09:11 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Jumping right into the thick of things.....When my son was about 10, I learned that he and a few friends went out a window on our third floor flat roof, which is only about 4'X6'. I sat him down to explain what could have happened. If he fell off and died, that wouldn't necessarily be the worst that could happen. He might strike his back across the stair rail below and become paralyzed or crack his head open and become a vegetable. He would spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair and his friends would stop coming to see him. I'd have to put a hospital bed in the dining room and make his food in a blender and feed it to him thru a tube. By the time I finished painting this gruesome picture, his lip was quivering and the tears were falling. He offered to accept whatever punishment I dished out. After a big hug, I told him sitting and listening to me was his punisment and he never went on the roof again. The moral of the story? I really wanted to slap him and say "What? Are you crazy!" But I think this method worked much better in the long run.
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#193395 - 06/15/04 09:12 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Jan 2002
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I just don't believe in physical violence for disciplining a child. Because they can't defend themselves. A 6 year old is no match for an adult physically. They also may not be a match emotionally but at least they can fight back. They may lose and be upset but there won't be any bruise the next day.
I believe spanking leaves physical pain as well as emotional pain. To me it seems the child is being punished twice.
I know some of you disagree with me. That is your right. I'm not trying to impose my belief system on you. I am just stating my beliefs.
Are you questioning me to learn why I believe these things or to try and prove my beliefs are invalid?
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Beauty is only skin deep...but ugly goes all the way to the bone!
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#193396 - 06/15/04 09:12 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,991
Soaring over Georgia
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Spanking is also age-oriented. Spanking an 11- or 12-year old is rarely the correct discipline for a child that old. But for a 3- or 4-year old it is more suitable as a punishment because they often cannot correctly identify with and learn from emotional pain.
_________________________
Jim Bedsole, CRCM, CBA, CFSA, CAFP
My posts - my opinions
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#193397 - 06/15/04 09:15 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,045
Pedaling along a scenic highwa...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would have to side with 'yes' it should be outlawed.
Nikko, how dare you - I can't believe you would try to impose your beliefs on me! You can't legislate morality, you know! What's right for you isn't necessarily right for me!
Yes, what's right is right. We DO legislate morality (no murder, no theft, etc. etc.) Sorry to burst your bubble.
It's not the morality of murder that is legislated, but the fact that murder impedes on the rights of those being murdered. Just as someone said in a thread not too long ago, "You have the right to swing your arms in a 360 degree circle, until you hit someone."
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#193398 - 06/15/04 09:25 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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This has really gotten off what the first posting was about. I have seen the first Shrek and plan to see Shrek 2 tonight.
Okay on the other discussion which has taken over. I believe there has to be a degree of fear in our children. I believe that that is what is wrong with a lot of children these days, they fear nothing. When I was coming up if you got in trouble at school you were in trouble when you got home. Now children know that the teachers nor the parents are going to do anything for them to fear. I was raised with spankings and so was my son. Neither were abused. I am a responsible adult and so is my son.
I do believe that each parent has to raise their child in the way that they feel is best for their child. I would never tell another parent what they should or shouln't do with their child and in turn they should let me raise mine my way. I do not believe that the government should tell any parent how to raise their child. As long as they are not physically or mentally abusing the child the government should stay out of it. Just my feeling, not trying to impose on anyone else.
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#193399 - 06/15/04 09:36 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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I respect anyone's opinion to spank or not spank their child. I do not respect anyone who physically harms their child while doing it. I do not respect anyone who wants to pass a law to outlaw reasonable corporal punishment in my house.
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#193400 - 06/15/04 10:26 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would have to side with 'yes' it should be outlawed.
Nikko, how dare you - I can't believe you would try to impose your beliefs on me! You can't legislate morality, you know! What's right for you isn't necessarily right for me!
I didn't impose my beliefs on you.
I didn't say you did. I pointed out that you wanted to.
Quote:
I would have to have power over you to implement my belief to impose them on you. Just because I state my belief does not mean I am imposing those beliefs on you. I don't have the power to change the law.
We live in a democratic republic. The will of the people is the supreme law, and all that. So you do, in fact, have power over me.
Some apparently didn't pick up on the fact that I was lampooning moral relativism by my questioning of you, Nikko, so here's one from your archives to help drive home the point:
Quote:
Even if I am not very comfortable seeing gays marry, do I have the right to tell them that they can't?
Let me ask you, even if you are not very comfortable seeing me spank my child, do you have thr right to tell me that I can't?
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#193404 - 06/16/04 12:55 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,984
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
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I really enjoyed Shrek 2. Thought it was better than the first one.
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- Frederick Douglass
My Opinion Only.
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#193405 - 06/16/04 01:25 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
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Bonnie and Waldensouth,
What are you trying to do, hijack this thread? Now, let's get back to the original topic: NPR should not be funded with tax dollars, primarily because I don't agree with what they say...
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In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.
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#193406 - 06/16/04 01:44 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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10K Club
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Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
...Now, let's get back to the original topic: NPR...
baiting...baiting...
nah.
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#193407 - 06/16/04 02:47 PM
Re: Shrek 2
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,045
Pedaling along a scenic highwa...
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Quote:
So - would y'all recommend SHREK this weekend or not? 
Yes.....I also thought it was better than the first one. I saw it with my 3 yr. old and I plan on seeing it in theatres again!
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