Thread Options
#1938281 - 07/07/14 10:01 PM Wire Transfer Travel Rule
vidaxi Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 66
We have had cases where foreign beneficiary banks are requesting information from the originating bank for the customer initiating a wire transfer due to the intermediate bank not providing this information. Are we required to provide this information or would this have to be information that is provided to them from the intermediate bank. And if we are as the originating party, what information are we permited to provide. We have banks requesting passport number, id's, dob, etc. Please advise. thanks

Return to Top
BSA/AML/CIP/OFAC Forum
#1938303 - 07/08/14 12:10 AM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Here's FinCEN 2010 - G004, FinCEN's most recent and most detailed guidance on the travel rule. It focuses on what you are required to send; i.e. if you adhered to its requirements as the originating bank you have complied and later breakdowns are not yours to remedy.

If you sent the required information, any intermediary bank is required to forward it so the beneficiary bank should ultimately receive it. (Note the explanation in the Guidance that indicates the intermediary bank is not obligated to send everything you might have sent, only the information required by law.) From my perspective, if you are assured that the information you sent never actually made it to the beneficiary bank you could freely provide it to them in response to a follow up request.

However, if the beneficiary bank wants additional information not addressed by the travel rule, but perhaps by their policies or even the laws in their country, I see no basis for providing that after they have accepted the wire unless there is some international or systemic authority for doing so. If they are refusing acceptance because they want information beyond that required by U.S. law, then I'd let the customer decide what we would and would not give them.

Others here have more first hand experience with international wires than I do so give them a chance to respond...
Last edited by Ken_Pegasus; 07/10/14 09:38 AM. Reason: Added underline
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#1938347 - 07/08/14 01:29 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
Xian Ngyuen Offline
100 Club
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 221
Vidaxi,

Are the beneficiary banks outside the U.S.? What kind of information are they asking for?

Other countries have their own laws regarding the information required on wire transfers; for example, India requires purpose of the payment, Canada requires a complete beneficiary party address, Turkey requires IBANs for both the originating party and the beneficiary party.

These countries are required to screen their incoming wires for missing information and can reject the wire, and in some cases are required to file a Suspicious Transaction Report with their regulator.

Return to Top
#1938377 - 07/08/14 02:19 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
NotDoneYet Offline
Gold Star
NotDoneYet
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 482
PA
We recently had to request the DOB of an originator from Mexico after a potential OFAC hit. OFAC advised us that unless we had it and could clear the sender, we had to freeze the money. It wasn't easy to get and neither company was happy with the bank.

Return to Top
#1938390 - 07/08/14 02:33 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
HappyGilmore Offline
10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,334
Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: vidaxi
We have had cases where foreign beneficiary banks are requesting information from the originating bank for the customer initiating a wire transfer due to the intermediate bank not providing this information. Are we required to provide this information ...


simple answer...if you want the beneficiary to receive the funds, the answer is yes. If the requested information is not provided, the funds can be held indefinitely. And you have minimal recourse.

i've never heard of an intermediary bank not passing along all the information contained in a wire transfer, you may wish to choose a new correspondent for international wires.
_________________________
Providing alternative truths since the invention of time

Return to Top
#1938753 - 07/08/14 09:58 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule NotDoneYet
*W*W* Offline
Platinum Poster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 835
Originally Posted By: NotDoneYet
We recently had to request the DOB of an originator from Mexico after a potential OFAC hit. OFAC advised us that unless we had it and could clear the sender, we had to freeze the money. It wasn't easy to get and neither company was happy with the bank.


NotDoneYet,
Were you the receiving or sending bank?
_________________________
Live Like No One Else!
CRCM

Opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect the views of my employer.

Return to Top
#1938787 - 07/09/14 12:37 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
NotDoneYet Offline
Gold Star
NotDoneYet
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 482
PA
We were receiving bank.

Return to Top
#1938851 - 07/09/14 02:49 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
vidaxi Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 66
thanks for your responses. The Wire transfer travel rule limits the amount of information that we can provide. In the cases that I have mentioned, they are requesting DOB, Passport information, etc. Aren't we inc compliance by providing what the Wire Transfer Rule requires? In addition, why would the beneficiary bank be requesting it from us if the intermediate bank should be the one passing through this information.

Return to Top
#1938889 - 07/09/14 03:39 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
kw004h Offline
100 Club
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 219
Chicagoland, IL
It sounds like they are trying to clear your customer from some kind of screening list. This information is not required by the travel rule, and if you didn't send it with the original wire transfer, there's no way your intermediate bank could have passed it along, so if the beneficiary bank wants that information, they would have to come back to you. As others have said, if your customer wants his transaction to go through, s/he may be willing to allow you to share that information with the beneficiary bank.

Return to Top
#1938965 - 07/09/14 05:12 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule NotDoneYet
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,408
Cape Cod
Originally Posted By: NotDoneYet
We recently had to request the DOB of an originator from Mexico after a potential OFAC hit. OFAC advised us that unless we had it and could clear the sender, we had to freeze the money. It wasn't easy to get and neither company was happy with the bank.
They'd have been a darn sight less happy with the bank if you had to freeze the funds and let them fight it out with OFAC.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top
#1939199 - 07/10/14 09:34 AM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Quote:
why would the beneficiary bank be requesting it from us if the intermediate bank should be the one passing through this information.


From the Guidance linked above:

An intermediary financial institution may receive supplementary information about a payment beyond the information the travel rule requires to be sent to the next financial institution in the payment chain. For example, a payment order may contain additional information about the payment or the parties to the transaction. Due to differences in format and detail included in different systems, such as Fedwire, CHIPS, SWIFT and proprietary message formats, this additional information may not be readily transferable to the format used to send a subsequent payment order. In that event, the sending intermediary institution would be in compliance with the travel rule as long as all of the information specified in the travel rule was included in the subsequent payment order.

The intermediary bank is not obligated to send everything you might have sent, only the information required by law..
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#1939250 - 07/10/14 01:58 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
HappyGilmore Offline
10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,334
Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: vidaxi
The Wire transfer travel rule limits the amount of information that we can provide.


This is incorrect...the travel rule covers what information you MUST provide, but it does not prevent you from sending additional information.
_________________________
Providing alternative truths since the invention of time

Return to Top
#1939814 - 07/11/14 03:32 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
Little Miss BSA Offline
Diamond Poster
Little Miss BSA
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,185
Miami
Agree with Happy's statement. We've been getting a lot of requests for additional info such as DOB, POB, ID, etc (primarily from the bigger banks - guessing some of those very large OFAC fines have had some affect LOL) but the requests are all usually related to possible OFAC hits not travel rule.
_________________________
"Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option!"

Return to Top
#1939862 - 07/11/14 04:18 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule Little Miss BSA
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
It would be impossible to disagree with Happy's statement, but he did not imply that the originator had a right to make additional disclosures in response to requests from the beneficiary bank. The travel rule was never intended to address that.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#1939936 - 07/11/14 05:53 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
HappyGilmore Offline
10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,334
Pulling people out of the ditc...
No Ken, just addressing the incorrect statement that the travel rule limits what they can provide. It simply says at a minimum what you must provide.

Now, as an originating bank, if the bene bank came asking for additional information, i would provide nothing else without the originator giving authority to provide it (and we've been in this situation more and more frequently on internaitonal wires). Not opening that can of worms...
_________________________
Providing alternative truths since the invention of time

Return to Top
#1939960 - 07/11/14 06:09 PM Re: Wire Transfer Travel Rule vidaxi
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,408
Cape Cod
As long as you caution your customer that if the information isn't supplied, there could be a problem having the funds delivered.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top

Moderator:  Andy_Z